Canada arrests Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

Don’t rush him, he is still trying to pluck up the courage and moral fibre to also admit Russia should send the first two Salisbury Novichock suspects, and those charged with the MH17 shoot down for trial outside of Russia.
They happened before yesterday, so it’ll be easier al round if everyone just forgets about it
 
Could be resolved in days?

Earlier you were saying why not just forget about it?

Make your mind up
Yes, the best solution is to terminate the case and release ms.Meng. Or anyway accelerate the hearings. Canadian justice is too slow and it itself violate one of the fundamental human rights - right for fair trial.
 
But she is still one and half years in detention, maybe in the golden but cage. What is the reasonable time interval for detention in a democratic country? It is my question. Could she be in detention 2, 3, 5 or more years? It looks as ms.Meng could be under arrest for many years.
It is not fair situation.
Her case can be resolved (this or that way) within weeks if not days. But Canadian justice (or 'justice'?) is too passive apparently for political reasons.
@terminal do you agree that the case is in fact political one and ms.Meng is a victim of politically motivated persecution?
Canada would like to see the US just drop the extradition request, but that is not in our power. We are caught in the middle on this one.

Yes, the best solution is to terminate the case and release ms.Meng. Or anyway accelerate the hearings. Canadian justice is too slow and it itself violate one of the fundamental human rights - right for fair trial.
Bear on mind that it is her defence council who are pursuing every legal avenue possible requiring multiple hearings. In normal extradition cases she would have been handed over to the requesting party very quickly.

There was a case a decade or so ago where a Chinese citizen was requested by Beijing to be handed over to China for trial on fraud charges. I believe the extradition process there took five years or more as he pursued every possible appeal on every possible grounds. Eventually however, he was handed over to China where he was tried and convicted.
 
Yes, the best solution is to terminate the case and release ms.Meng. Or anyway accelerate the hearings. Canadian justice is too slow and it itself violate one of the fundamental human rights - right for fair trial.
Why is it the ‘best’ solution to stop the case and release her?

What about the prosecution case in america? Just forget about that?
What about her rights in Canada for proper consideration as to whether or not she should be deported?
What about the full legal process of appealing any decisions?

These can take time - and depending on specifics there are time limits as well. Take too long and things can expire

If we want justice and fair trials then how about the two Salisbury tourists, and holidaying little green men in their tanks and missile launchers borrowed from work
 
But sort of similar to the interception of hardware and inserting of bugging devices practiced by the NSA (see terminal's link above) or Microsoft building a backdoor into Outlook for use by the NSA. Big boys game, big boys rules.

Ths is an acceptable practice, evidenced by our side thinking it a good idea to do to others. Granted that, the outrage seems a touch artificial and the question 'why now?' quite valid.
Let us not forget that a large proportion of the worlds internet comes ashore in Cornwall
 
Canada would like to see the US just drop the extradition request, but that is not in our power. We are caught in the middle on this one.


Bear on mind that it is her defence council who are pursuing every legal avenue possible requiring multiple hearings. In normal extradition cases she would have been handed over to the requesting party very quickly.

There was a case a decade or so ago where a Chinese citizen was requested by Beijing to be handed over to China for trial on fraud charges. I believe the extradition process there took five years or more as he pursued every possible appeal on every possible grounds. Eventually however, he was handed over to China where he was tried and convicted.
You mentioned that case previously.
By the way a lot of Chinese crooks and thieves found reliable shelter in Canada
There is a lot of relevant examples in the article.
The case with Lai Changxing is a rare exception. He eventually was extradited to China unlike many other criminals.
His wrongdoings were too obvious and were proven on early stages. The extradition was delayed for years for political reasons.

I would like to repeat my question - do you think that ms.Meng's case is purely criminal or mainly political one?







There is a big difference between the cases.
China demanded to extradict own citizen involved in criminal activity. And he did something that is also a crime in Canada.
By contrast Washington demands extradiction of foreign national (ms.Meng). and she hasn't done anything that would be punished by Canadian laws.
Let's recall the case that you refer to
 
You mentioned that case previously.
By the way a lot of Chinese crooks and thieves found reliable shelter in Canada
There is a lot of relevant examples in the article.
The case with Lai Changxing is a rare exception. He eventually was extradited to China unlike many other criminals.
His wrongdoings were too obvious and were proven on early stages. The extradition was delayed for years for political reasons.

I would like to repeat my question - do you think that ms.Meng's case is purely criminal or mainly political one?







There is a big difference between the cases.
China demanded to extradict own citizen involved in criminal activity. And he did something that is also a crime in Canada.
By contrast Washington demands extradiction of foreign national (ms.Meng). and she hasn't done anything that would be punished by Canadian laws.
Let's recall the case that you refer to
Have you come up with a reason yet why Mengs legal team should give up on the legal process of appeals that they have raised on her behalf, while she stays at home?
‘Because it would be easier if we all forgot about it’ is not an acceptable answer
 
You mentioned that case previously.
By the way a lot of Chinese crooks and thieves found reliable shelter in Canada
There is a lot of relevant examples in the article.
The case with Lai Changxing is a rare exception. He eventually was extradited to China unlike many other criminals.
His wrongdoings were too obvious and were proven on early stages. The extradition was delayed for years for political reasons.

I would like to repeat my question - do you think that ms.Meng's case is purely criminal or mainly political one?







There is a big difference between the cases.
China demanded to extradict own citizen involved in criminal activity. And he did something that is also a crime in Canada.
By contrast Washington demands extradiction of foreign national (ms.Meng). and she hasn't done anything that would be punished by Canadian laws.
Let's recall the case that you refer to
It's not political in Canada other than the government wished it had happened somewhere else.

As to whether it is political in the US, that's another matter and is a subject which has been discussed extensively already on this thread.
 
It's not political in Canada other than the government wished it had happened somewhere else.

As to whether it is political in the US, that's another matter and is a subject which has been discussed extensively already on this thread.
On this point we have to agree to disagree. From my point of view the case has significant political component. For political reasons Canadian authorities just are playing time, try to postpone as long as possible to test Washington's charges in the court.
Meng denies the allegations, which have not been tested in court, and her legal team says the charges are politically motivated by the Trump administration.
So a person is in detention from 1 December 2018 and the details of accusation have still have not been tested in the court.
But why? My answer is clear - for political reasons. And what is your answer, your explanation?
 
Have you come up with a reason yet why Mengs legal team should give up on the legal process of appeals that they have raised on her behalf, while she stays at home?
‘Because it would be easier if we all forgot about it’ is not an acceptable answer
Apparently you are not aware about essential details of the case. What appeals do you mean? The charges still have not been tested in the court and thus there is no verdict. So it is impossible to appeal unexisting verdict.
 
Have you come up with a reason yet why Mengs legal team should give up on the legal process of appeals that they have raised on her behalf, while she stays at home?
Meng hasn't been charged with anything in Canada, she's being held pending a decision on extradition. The only charges raised against her have been in the US and they've yet to come to court.

She's currently unable to appeal anything in either country, yet has been deprived of her liberty for over a year.
 
Apparently you are not aware about essential details of the case. What appeals do you mean? The charges still have not been tested in the court and thus there is no verdict. So it is impossible to appeal unexisting verdict.
And you are not aware of how legal processes work

America want her to be deported to America so that they can take her to court
America has to justify the deportation, and would Canada have to accept that and deport her
She has a legal team - they are working on the matter
 
Meng hasn't been charged with anything in Canada, she's being held pending a decision on extradition. The only charges raised against her have been in the US and they've yet to come to court.

She's currently unable to appeal anything in either country, yet has been deprived of her liberty for over a year.
She does have an extradition case in Canada and a legal team working on that to prevent her extradition
 
She does have an extradition case in Canada and a legal team working on that to prevent her extradition
But no appeal is possible in that as no verdict has been reached. She'll be held indefinitely until it has been - without being convicted of any crime in any jurisdiction whatsoever.
 
But no appeal is possible in that as no verdict has been reached. She'll be held indefinitely until it has been - without being convicted of any crime in any jurisdiction whatsoever.
I am not saying that she has an appeal open on the main case. That has not taken place

She is in the legal process, she is not sat in prison.
Just like many other people in the world, an allegation has been made and an individual that remains innocent until proven guilty may be held in detention, under house arrest, on bail etc during the legal process
Things can take time - the accuser has a right to a voice and the accused has a right to a voice. As international boundaries are involved there is not only the matter as to whether there is a valid case against her, but whether it meets the criteria for Canada to send her across a border to face to charges. The quickest way out would be for her to go to America, but she has the right to appeal against extradition - which her legal team are working on

Still nothing from KGB to support his argument (and the party line on the various Russian cases that the world may as well forget about things just because they happened before yesterday)
 
I am not saying that she has an appeal open on the main case. That has not taken place
Sorry, when you asked if she should "give up on the legal process of appeals" I assumed you were talking about the legal process of appeals. Turns out you meant something entirely different.
 
Sorry, when you asked if she should "give up on the legal process of appeals" I assumed you were talking about the legal process of appeals. Turns out you meant something entirely different.
Correct - the full legal process
This is currently before the prosecution case in America and is the extradition process in Canada

I do understand that it’s hard to keep track of KGBs point
 
Correct - the full legal process
This is currently before the prosecution case in America and is the extradition process in Canada

I do understand that it’s hard to keep track of KGBs point
I was finding it hard to understand why you would use the word 'appeal' which has a specific meaning in legal processes when you meant something with an entirely different description.

It's hard to keep track of anyone's point when they misuse the English language.
 
I was finding it hard to understand why you would use the word 'appeal' which has a specific meaning in legal processes when you meant something with an entirely different description.

It's hard to keep track of anyone's point when they misuse the English language.
The extradition process was started and her legal team have raised an appeal/appeals based on points of law
 
On this point we have to agree to disagree. From my point of view the case has significant political component. For political reasons Canadian authorities just are playing time, try to postpone as long as possible to test Washington's charges in the court.
There isn't a political component to the case in Canada, but there is a diplomatic one. I am careful to distinguish between the two.

Trudeau had asked the US and China to come to an agreement over Meng while they were in trade discussions (Trump had earlier said that Meng could be released if China made enough trade concessions), but the US refused to bring the issue up at the time.

So a person is in detention from 1 December 2018 and the details of accusation have still have not been tested in the court.
But why? My answer is clear - for political reasons. And what is your answer, your explanation?
The accusations against Meng will not be tested in a Canadian court. Canada has not accused her of any wrong doing.

What is being dealt with in court in Canada is whether the US extradition request meets the required standard to go forward. As I recall it, Meng's lawyers have raised several objections.

The first it the matter of "double criminality". Did what Meng is accused of by the US also constitute a crime if it had been done in Canada? According to Meng's lawyers the "essence" of the case against her is violation of sanctions, which do not apply in Canada. According to the crown (whose lawyers are presenting the extradition request on behalf of the US), the essence of the case is fraud. That is, by allegedly lying to certain banks, Meng committed fraud as this put those banks in risk of prosecution by the US over sanctions. The judge will not concern himself with whether or not fraud was committed, only whether the case is about sanctions or fraud. Hearings on this issue have taken place, but the judge has not ruled on them yet.

The second matter is whether abuse of process took place while Meng was in the hands of customs and immigration upon her arrival. This revolves around how the search of Meng's phone and laptop took place. Much of the delay so far has revolved around Meng's lawyers demanding extensive production of documents and testimony by immigration and police officials, and the time spent studying them and asking for more documents, looking for evidence of this abuse of process. If abuse of process has taken place, then the extradition request may be thrown out. The judge has not ruled on this yet. Some abuse of process clearly did take place in my opinion, so the question may revolve around whether it was sufficient to have the case quashed.

Rulings adverse to either side may be appealed.

Another question to be addressed is whether the US extradition request is politically motivated. That won't be addressed however until Meng's extradition has been preliminarily approved by the court. I'm not sure if the judge will look at this issue or not. However, it does ultimately have to be approved by the government, and it can be decided on at the cabinet level.

Trudeau is keeping his distance from the case (aside from asking the two sides to settle their differences) for two reasons. The first is of course diplomatic. This case has put Canada in a very difficult position, and the country will face retaliation by either side regardless of the outcome. Delaying the result and hoping for something to turn up which resolves the issue is the current hope.

The other reason why Trudeau is trying to stay at arm's length is political. He is currently leading a minority government, and the reason for that is that at the time of the last election there was a major scandal when he intervened in a case on behalf of a major company (SNC Lavalin) with regard to bribery allegations in Libya. He is trying to avoid a repeat of that in this case.

At the moment the best outcome for Canada rests one of the following taking place (in order of preference):
  1. The US and China come to an agreement on the issue.
  2. The judge rules that the case is about sanctions and not fraud, and denies the extradition on those grounds.
  3. The judge rules that abuse of process by Canadian customs and immigration and police took place, and orders Meng's release on those grounds.
 
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