Can we Stop PAYD?

#1
I've seen this topic before, and i hate to go over old ground. But i'm very worried about the impact PAYD will have on soldiers based in my unit. We have been luckly untill now that we have managed to put PAYD off. That is untill now!

PAYD is due to come into effect in November in my Garrison. Having spoken to young soldiers based in other Garrison towns and spoken to my RCWO, i have not yet met anyone who thinks that it provides the kind of quality and portions that are required. I base this not on knocking the NAAFI ( which use to be a great service) but on the experiances by other soldiers who already use PAYD and the expert job that our own chefs carryout, who have been fully receive breifings and Trg on the new system.

Service providers such as the NAAFI can never please everyone, but wouldn't it be nice to believe that the NAAFI provide a service not for pure profit but for the benefit of others, only the SALLY BASH now provide a cup of tea a smile, and a warm face at the right time and the right place. Please bring them back to our Garrison towns and not push them to one side.

So i return to my question, which i already know the answer to.
Can we stop PAYD?
 
#4
I remember in the late 80's, early 90's as a singlie everyone complaining that they never ate in the cookhouse and still had to pay for their food and wanting a pay as you dine system introduced. This means there has been long enough time to introduce a system that should cater for all needs but I have heard nightmare stories of people having to go hungry because they cant manage their money. Unfortunately with the way its going the promise I made like many other recruiters to parents that their little Jonny would have a roof over his head and three meals a day guaranteed is not going to happen.
A way the system would work would be a swipe card system that when you do eat your meals would automatically come out your wages the following month or even a credit system where it is automatically topped up from our wages when it falls below a certain credit (say falls below £20 it tops up to £50 )from your pay statement.
Its better than having young soldiers having to go on the naughty register or eat rat packs or beans.

So it could be a good system if sorted ot correctly
 
#5
As The Iron says, lots of lads used to complain about paying for food they didn't eat. This was especially true for shift workers who could bugger off home for 4 or 5 days at the end of the shift cycle. However, the cook Sgt used to say this is what paid for the high quality of food they could provide as they built in the fact that a lot of lads didn't eat in for all meals.
Great idea about the swipe card. Can just imagine a young Tom in the pub the night before with a couple of quid left in his pocket wondering whether to have another pint or breakfast in the morning. Fraid the pint would probably win.
 
#6
Good points Iron, all if which have been looked at if what we have been told is to be believed. Unfortunately, it was not cost effective when trialled.

I have too heard the horror stories, oddly from a Crab unit that said the mess life died and everyone was eating meals for one from Tescos. The lads cook house was empty, but the local supermarket was making a killing.

To be honest, although we can do nothing about it pre introduction, if you are not happy with the service vote with your feet and do not eat there. It is now a business and the power of the customer will be very much in effect. They need to make money, therefore they need to provide a service that attracts a customer.

With regards to managing money, recruits are apparently being taught budgeting in their training and at the end of the day, we are asked to do more intense things then balance an account each month.

My concern is the quality of food (again Profit comes into play). As long as the meals are balanced and healthy, then I can be happy that the health of my men is not going to be affected.
 
#7
I understand the "Save as you Starve" points that are being made, but what does it say about a soldier, whatever rank they may be, being unable to feed himself due to poor handling of funds. One thread says that a soldier would buy another pint instead of keep money back for a meal.

Surley we are delaing with adult human beings, who, whatever rank they may be, are still paid enough to feed themselves. If there are unable to fulfill this function, which ranks alongside breathing, sleeping and injesting fluids, what does it say about the quality of the man/woman?
 
#8
Cookhouses have always relied on the fact that a large number of people dont turn up for meals. When I were a young soldier in Germany in 1975, a lot of us didn't eat, because the first ones in the queue got the steaks, and the rest got spaghetti and mash. So went down the TocH.

With PAYD - how is the ACC supposed to guess how many meals to prepare ??
 
#9
How many put an entry in the complaints book? Also, don't know if it's been mentioned earlier but what about a coordinated (via ARRSE?) mass boycott of all PAYD facilities? Thsi would surely send out a strong message that all is not well and that the customer is not satisfied - for that's what we are - consuming customers with a variety of legal rights. Start complaining - LOUDLY!!
 
#10
ChickVonFlick said:
I understand the "Save as you Starve" points that are being made, but what does it say about a soldier, whatever rank they may be, being unable to feed himself due to poor handling of funds. One thread says that a soldier would buy another pint instead of keep money back for a meal.

Surley we are delaing with adult human beings, who, whatever rank they may be, are still paid enough to feed themselves. If there are unable to fulfill this function, which ranks alongside breathing, sleeping and injesting fluids, what does it say about the quality of the man/woman?
With regard to the quality of the man/woman, I suggest you do some simple research into the reading, sums and writng standards of the average modern recruit - all the product of a Prime Minister who ranted "Education, Education, Education"!!! To save you the bother, the average modern recruit has the academic ability of an 11/12 year old and getting lower! Have a chat with your Education Wing.
 
#11
[/quote]I understand the "Save as you Starve" points that are being made, but what does it say about a soldier, whatever rank they may be, being unable to feed himself due to poor handling of funds. One thread says that a soldier would buy another pint instead of keep money back for a meal.

Surley we are delaing with adult human beings, who, whatever rank they may be, are still paid enough to feed themselves. If there are unable to fulfill this function, which ranks alongside breathing, sleeping and injesting fluids, what does it say about the quality of the man/woman?
Without being rude this statement proves that a large group do not understand the "soldier". Not the Soldier of today but all of us past present and future. A pint of beer will always win over a decent meal, not right, but the truth.

Has PAYD had any good feedback? Does anyone have one in there camp that works?

Is there a RCWO out there that can prove that it provides a service that is at least as good as we receive now?

Does anyone belong to a Mess that is better off for PAYD and NAAFI?

Is there anyone who uses PAYD and feel better fed, and feels the improvements?

I worry about PAYD not so i can knock the NAAFI which can be a good service, but because of the men i am supposed to look after and train.
I am truly looking for the positve side of this, and i cannot seem to find one.

Is it a case of being careful for what we wished for?
 
#12
flashman2379 said:
Is it a case of being careful for what we wished for?
Got it in one.

The same has been said about accom and the abolotion of 3-4 man rooms in favour of travellodge-esque en-suite rooms.
 
#13
I can still remember being given a lecture by the Catering Officer ( an ACC Captain incidentally) in my first couple of weeks at IJLB (1972, if you must know) during which he asked for questions from the floor, some pimply little herbert (possibly me) chirped up with the time honoured question about paying for meals he didn't eat, despite the DMR being about 10p or something back then. The good captain pointed out the facts of life to him, quality of food, good value for what you're paying, two thirds of an egg per man etc. etc. and that was that. Over the next 24 years I never once had cause to question the wisdom or advantage of the messing arrangements and I am absolutely staggered that PAYD was introduced, presumably because over the years the constant whining from a small number of selfish short -sighted tossers eventually took effect.

Talk about Turkeys voting for Xmas!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
#14
Serving in the Galleys of a reputable unit in Plymouth :chef: most of the singlies ticked about paying for the food over the weekend. It took the MasterChef and QM to educate them that money saved over the weekend was used to produce a splendid variety of food on the hotplate. The Main Galley had a cracking variety, more so than the messes did. It goes to show that with PAYD this will not happen any more, and individuals will save £6 over the weekend. Justice to those that moaned about paying £6 :frustrated:
 
#15
I was the rations Colour Sgt many years ago, we needed men not to go for meals to balance the budget. I was always contacting the CSM's to put haversack ration indents in. This helped the master chef in budgeting. I have been out of the Army 9 years. I can honestly say, I was well fed, the chefs provided a service second to none. My son-in-law is a Staffy in Germany he has told me horror stories of hungry skint Soldiers, as a young Tom I would of gone hungry no doubt. What have the Generals allowed to happen, poor kit, PAYD, surely the Men at the top should have the bottle to stand up, and say no more. Every Soldier should be fed, the DMR worked, if it wasn't broke it should of been left alone.
 
#16
I was in Gemany when this came into being on our camp, firstly, the naafi killed off all possible competetion on camp, then they could have total control.
IMHO, payd is not the devil child some make it out to be, the meals are dirt cheap, and were of a good quality, plus, as always, if you dont want to eat there you now get the money to eat elsewhere, if you can. Nobody starves that i was aware of, the few nobbers who could budget a wage til the end of the month, and couldnt beg or borrow a few euros of a mate could still go on the register, i only knew of 2 who did this.
However, on a personal level i much prefered the old system.
 
#17
Anyone know where I can get my hands on the last few NAAFI annual reports? I'm about to start the PAYD process and I've been singularly unimpressed by their presentations to date which have consisted of:

1. A plea to support PAYD as NAAFI are losing money in uk.
2. A plea to support PAYD as if the chain of command don't soldiers won't.
3. A refusal to provide any footfall figures to inform us as to how the messes in particular are operating.
4. Some very dodgy quoted figures as to how successful the Falli set up was on its first day in attracting non-soldier diners (ie families).
5. After some dodging and weaving, an admission that only about 20% of profits are re-invested. More dodging over where the rest of the profit goes and a discussion about net profit versus turnover...

I have no problem with the concept necessarily but why should we go into business with an organisation that refuses to be open and honest with us? Why go into business with an organisation that has a dubious business track record? I'd like the reports so I can read for myself...
 
#18
I don't mind PAYD and I've always got money at the end of the month. The meals are pretty good and are cheap. I only ever eat in the cookhouse in the evenings, so I'm not paying for a breakfast and lunch I don't eat!
 
#19
Forks said:
I don't mind PAYD and I've always got money at the end of the month. The meals are pretty good and are cheap. I only ever eat in the cookhouse in the evenings, so I'm not paying for a breakfast and lunch I don't eat!
Two points.

1) Charge Him!! (old enough to remember getting gripped for thinking I could miss breakfast )

2) Pretty much what was wanted in the first place, only pay for what you eat. So why the f**k did we end up with the monothlic monopoly that is PAYD?
 
#20
With regards to the swipe card idea they do have such a system down at Bordonia but only for the lads who end up skint after the first weekend of the month.
 

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