Can we please discuss real matters for a change!

Discussion in 'Officers' started by Colonel_Crusty, Sep 24, 2005.

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  1. You seem to be focussed on "wives at Sandhurst" (extraordinary idea), "bird tables" (what on earth is wrong with just leaving the Non Commissioned Officers to sort that sort of thing), "train stations" (one's orderly deals with that sort of detail in the NAAFI), the Royal Electrical and Mechanical lot (not worth discussing unless my Bentley needs a service) and you are not giving enough attention to the important things in life: hunting, shooting and fishing (incidentally I hear it is fashionable in the lower orders to leave off the final letter of those three sports), and Dogs in the Mess (most important).

    So can we discuss what appeals to officers. When I say officers I mean Officers not those who have yet to even be selected for Sandhurst or who cannot even find it.

    I shall be interested in your views, Gentlemen.

  2. Col Crusty, like your style. Someone with some sense at last, I mean come on people, wives at sandhurst and stations for fcuk sake...........
  3. Very well Col,

    Do we really believe that we are leaving the British Army in a better state than when we, as a corporate body, took it on? Do we have any real say in its direction, or are we merely just budget managers rather than the guardians of our national security and interests?

    Is this a new phenomenon or did Caesar and Clauswitz have the same issues?
  4. And Ladies surely?

  5. Unfortunately, the job of "guardians of our national security and interests" has been contracted out to our elected politicians. If this were not the case, we'd probably be another tinpot dictatorship where this type of open debate would likely end up with a trip to the zoo (as a food item).

    As for leaving the British Army, there are plenty of officers leaving! Very, very few of them had any influence in the direction the Army goes in and even fewer will have been able to do anything to improve it. I'm sure though, that somewhere in the mass of people heading for the exists there are some who could, and should, have such an influence. Only those in the very top jobs can change this.

    The budget has become king - getting the job done is secondary to that overriding imperative. Somehow "Serve To Manage" doesn't have the same ring as "Serve To Lead".

    Oi, bring my soapbox back!
  6. If you can afford a Bentley then pay the proper money to get the damn thing serviced rather than inconveniencing the REME with bone servicing tasks when they are already over stretched. However interesting it might be for the tradesman to have Bentley Mulsan Turbo R on his RECs

    Other wise I am in full agreement not enough talk about the important 3 that you mentioned!
    And Dogs should be encouraged in the mess they give it character

    Devilish Dave
  7. Hmm, a good question. Now, before I drop in my tuppence worth, let me say that I am not an officer, nor even an officer cadet, but that I am currently in the middle of the application process. Disregard my views an uninformed drivel if you will, but the reason I first logged on to ARRSE was to "feel the pulse" rather than get tips on press ups, so I thought I might contribute.

    Budgetary contraints are something that managers/leaders must deal with in all walks of life, and they consequently influence decision making. However, as far as I can gather, what they influence far less in the armed forces is the management of personnel, rather than resources, especially as far as platoon/troop level command is concerned. By way of example - Plt Cmdr X can send his soldiers on as many courses as he feels he can, to further their personal development, but he cannot indent for an extra Warrior. The opposite is true in many walks of civillian life, where a departmental budget might be designed to cover equipment such as IT systems, or manufacturing devices, but not employee development.

    This, I feel is reflective of the culture within the Army, and rightly so. As a guards Colonel once said to me - "Soldiers are our raison d'etre". As the most precious resource the Army has, they must be treated as such. Therefore, If you leave a command appointment having done all you can to further the careers of your soldiers, then you will have left the Army in a better state than in which you found it - at the most fundamental level.

    As far as green-slime's question about becoming budgetary managers rather than guardians of national interests is concerned, consider this. Clauswitz beleived that the head of the armed forces should sit in cabinet with government ministers, not so that the ministers knew what the armed forces were capable of, nor to recieve military advice, but to ensure that the Army knew what political goals it was fighting for, and why decisions were being made, and could fight the war accordingly.

    The armed forces are an instrument of policy - they do not form it. They write doctrine, and follow it in pursuit of political aims. However, Trivulzio wrote "You need three things to win a war; money, money and more money" . By this argument, and by the "trickle down" nature of responsibility in maneuverist doctrine, bugetary management is an intrinsic part of war preparation and fighting in our armed forces, the question is not that of being "merely" budget managers.

    What makes being an officer so special, and why I want to become one, is that it is about more than just management, its about leadership too.

    "Again I repeat that riches are not, then, the sinews of war; but good soldiers are" - Machiavelli.
  8. Female Officers?

    Surely not!

    By God, it's only a short step from Female Officers to admitting those grubby grammar school oiks.

    Where will it all end? The working classes as Officers? Over my dead body. If any of my staff tried that sort of malarkey, I'd have them out of their tied cottages faster than you can say "Jack Robinson", and off my estate clutching a poor reference, let me tell you!

    The lower orders know their place, and they like it down there. Any attempt to tinker with God's divine order of the World is bound to end in disaster. They make fine servants, and good NCOs, but surely that is where it must end.

    for CO

    PS Fishing, now there is a sport for men. The thrill of the chase, the arc of the line as you make a perfect cast, the enigma of what is fighting for its life at the end of your line. However, I've been having a little trouble with the rod in my set. It won't pick up the little metal fish any more. I've tried cardboard fish with paperclip noses, but that doesn't seem to help. Does anyone know where I can get a new magnet?

    edited - to add insult to injury
  9. How very sweet of you to want to join in. Please don't think that you need worry about any of this, my dear.

  10. Are you living in the same time, and on the same planet as the rest of us?
  11. Thank you so much for your insight. You are clearly going to be a handful at RMAS methinks.


  12. You're very kind but, alas, I feel I would be lacking in my responsibility if I just stood idly by. While I finish my reply, if you would be gracious enough to consider editing your initial post to include Ladies or, change the title of this thread to clearly state men only, then I would be only to pleased to remove my post @1.15pm today.

  13. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    A pointless, tedious and unamusing thread, which I have now locked.
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