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Can we be part of both the TA and the ACF?

#1
I have been a member of the TA and ACF for about 6 months, I Joined them both in the same week.

I have not missed a week or camp for eather but one where I had Both TA and Cadets on one weekend, I went to the Cadets with the TA CO's aprovell.

But the cadets have just dumped me when thay found out that I am in the TA saying thay do not think I can put the commetment in to both.

is any one elce in both and if so have you had any truble with commetment ?

:roll:
 
V

vespa

Guest
#2
it has been done before, i had online chat with he was in the TA and ACF for quite a while, he laterleft the TA out of his own choice, there is no problems from what he tells me,
it could be that the ACF in your area has a different policy ?
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
On a national basis there is no problem with being in the TA and the ACF as a member of the adult staff, obviously your local county headquarters may have an issue.

I know of some people who are both TA and ACF.

There is however a problem if you are then put on the commissioning board by the ACF as a type b commission is still a commission and at that point you either have to leave the TA or try to convinve the board that you are worthy of a type a as well so that you can be an occifer in both organisations.

Not difficult under 35, a pain in the bum after that.
 
#4
sig_armstrong said:
I have been a member of the TA and ACF for about 6 months, I Joined them both in the same week.

I have not missed a week or camp for eather but one where I had Both TA and Cadets on one weekend, I went to the Cadets with the TA CO's aprovell.

But the cadets have just dumped me when thay found out that I am in the TA saying thay do not think I can put the commetment in to both.

is any one elce in both and if so have you had any truble with commetment ?

:roll:

While I was in the UOTC I was in both - as the UOTC is part of the TA - and technically I still have dual membership of the TA and ACF. However, I've recently been commissioned, and so if I want to stay in the ACF I will have to ask my new units permission - because I will have to hold a Type A and a Type C (ACF commissions aren't Type B) at the same time.

However, I have found that ACF officers in my county look down on the TA and constantly tried to get me to leave. Also, they had a thing about me wearing my uniform according to the dress regulations of my Corps, and kept on trying to make me pin ACF titles onto my rank slide. They insisted that while I was being paid by them I had to dress the way they want, but if you check TA and Army regulations, you'll find that TA has prescident over the ACF - but that's a minor grumble.

There is nothing in the regs to stop you being in both. However, you should consult your OC/CO and gain their permission - remember, as a part of the TA you have a mobilisation liability and have to forfill enough training each year to be considered fit for role (ie do enough to get your bounty). The ACF should - but don't always - recognise this and understand that they play second fiddle to the TA. I have certainly found that ACF staff question this outlook and therefore question your committment - but as far as I am concerned, anyone who is willing to do twice as much work is clearly committed, and have a foot in both camps you bring extra skills to both:

Being in the ACF will teach you and give you more practise of instructing

Being in the TA will give you up to date training and doctrine, and will also give you usefull contacts.

Everyone wins!

The only other thing to note is that your rank in the ACF MUST MIRROR your rank in the TA (again because it's the senior organisation) so the ACF can't commission you unless your TA unit will commission you as well - which means Sandhurst (a word most ACF officer's aren't familiar with!!!). Hope that helps.
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
As a working member of the ACF rank slides with ACF clearly marked on them should always be worn in order to clarify the situation.

ACF instructors, commissioned or not, have a priority of responsibilities that is different to the TA. In the TA ultimately your priority of responsibilities start off with the crown and then run down. In the ACF your first and primary responsibility must always remain the welfare and safety of the cadets under your charge; the crown, the Queen, the royal corgis and even the GSM of Aldershot appear significantly further down my list of priorities than the welfare of cadets in my charge and the ACF slides give me the moral authority and legal position to state this.

The ACF letters clearly indicate to other green bodies that you will deal with cadets first and them second. It also indicates who is responsible and that you are classified as an appropriate person to deal with other people's children because that is what they are and what the ACF staff are.

A copy of "The Red Book" and a pair of ACF rank slides should be the minimum requirement before I let anyone within fifty feet of a cadet unless they were dirrectly supervised by someone wearring and possessing the said book and slides.
 
#6
I am also ACF/OTC(TA class B) and this is what I have found.

THE ARMY CADET FORCE MANUAL
ARMY CODE NUMBER 14233
Para 4.006

"c.
Dual ACF/TA Commitment. Other Ranks on the Active list of the TA or the R IRISH (HS) may also serve as AI's in the ACF but their duties in the TA or R IRISH (HS) are to take precedence."
My I have got the ACF to take this to the top as it is not somthing that is realy defined in any ones books. but the genral jist seems to be that you can do both as an AI. you can draw pay form boath but not on the same day. If you are paraiding with the ACF you wair there uniform and abyed by their rules. Like wise wile you are in the TA you wair there uniform and abide by their rules. HQ Land are looking in to the whole Dule membership thing at the moment so we will see what happens.
 
#8
A_team_lucy said:
can't spell though can you? "wair"? "dule"?
Acceptable from an ACFer but not an OTCer.
Get a spellchecker.
You tell them Lucy ............. or should that be Kevin?

Although how anyone can get so excited about whether or not to wear "ACF" rank slides is way beyond me. Isn't the quality and commitment of an individual (accepting neither of these terms really apply to many people in the TA) more important than whether they conform to pointless regulations?

:roll:
 
#9
it's Kevin,
fair play to the ACF, may as well give the scallies some sense of responsability. That way they can beat each other up for their thieving antics.
 
#10
Stand by, stand by....

Correcting grammar and spelling on an ACF thread, hmm seen this happen before. Bear in mind Lucy what happened when I embarked on the same mission.

Ach well, this time I'll enjoy the spectacle....
 
#11
Well, actually fella, fair one on this occasion.
Obviously you don't need my permission to crack on, or anything, but feel free.

The guy's supposed to be in an OTC, fer Chrissake.

'abyed', 'wile', 'boath' - are you from the 16th Century, far_famed_wolf?
 
#13
Please excuse my spelling. Im dislexice. I do try.

I think when maninblack referd to ACF Slides and the red book he was meaning that we have all been checked out by the police to make shore we are capable of beeing truseded with peoples childern. where as other people in green havn't. (unles thay are teachers or do a similer job)

Also Regs and TA get very sniffy about ACF typs wearing undiffranced rank slides as ACF instructors, although thay hold a rank of eg Sgt. Thay are (untill comissioned) Civies.
 
#16
can you join the ACF just to help out?

Im a TA Trooper, was a cadet a while ago, i dont really want to become a proper ACF instructor, but like the idea of passing on stuff that i think might be worthwhile.

i understand i would have to go through the tests to work with children, and quiet rightly so, but dont really fancy doing the whole ACF adult thing, i don't mind that i wouldnt be getting paid, an odd evening here or there, or a spare weekend i think could be worthwhile.
 
#17
Talk to your Adj and your local ACF Detacment. In theory most ACF dets are under staffed and are happy for any help thay can get. You should be able to parade On attachment with the ACF from your TA Unit. you would be in TA Uniform and have a letter from your TA OC to say that it is ok for you to be there.

As I said go and talk to the OC for your local ACF Det and thay will probably refer you to their County HQ.
 
V

vespa

Guest
#18
most cadets would love to see a TA or Reg soldier turning up , it means that they can ask you questions, see that the cadets aren't being ignored even better if you can come down with military equipment and gear that they can actually touch.
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
My point on the ACF slides is that they define someone as having priorities and responsibilities that differ from other green bodies.

Even if you are a member of the TA and in the RLC someone who is badged as RLC wearing ACF titles is not a member of the RLC whilst on cadet duties but remains ACF and must deal with the cadets first and everything else second.

The titles indicate priorities and training and show that the wearer, if non-commissioned, is technically a part time civilian employee of the MOD whilst carrying out their cadet duties.
 
V

vespa

Guest
#20
correct me if im wrong MIB , as long as an ACF staff is present the TA activities with cadets can go ahead i.e. TA visits to detachments, meet & greets, displays and cadet visits to their Badged Regiments, providing all the usual risk assessment has been done.

if there is anything i have missed out please add them to what i have already said
 

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