Can they do this?

[sgnsty]

Am currently deployed with my squadron on Ops and we have just been told that while we've been away the rear party have gone into the SLA and 'removed' all the lads issued lockers. Apparently this has come from the QM's dept, who had some on loan from another unit on camp. Having 'misplaced' them they have made up the deficiency (at least in the short term) by removing all the lads lockers and giving them away. All the guys stuff has been boxed up and placed into MFO boxes. Before anyone says theat this should have happened anyway before the tour started, we were specifically instructed not to bother boxing our rooms up! Does anybody know what the ins-and-outs of a situation like this are? What if things have been broken/gone missing from rooms that were opened without the owners consent or knowledge?

 

[chocolate_frog]

THere are rules for this sort of thing. I think they would need to have a commisioned officer present.

 

[keeffy]

Dont matter mate just put in massive claim when you get back for all broken/missing kit and your kit insurance should settle

 

[bullshit]

It smacks of pretty poor management from yr superiors! I personally believe that they could have just simply told whoever wanted the issue lockers that they would have to wait and accept the consequences. So what if some QM in Bde jumps up and down! What is that compared to morale in theatre? Army is full of yes men who put rules and reg's before their soldiers.

But back to the point, why not try contacting the RMP and ask them for guidance? I know that if they want to search a locker they have to have numerous ticks in the box, ie, officer, witness etc. If they did not do this whats stopping you from claiming that your iPod has gone missing.....also what if you had personal things that you did not want in public view?

QM Depts are their to support soldiers - not mess them about....

 

[Jaeger]

I believe the if the RMP wish to search a soldiers locker/room they must first have permission of the unit CO, after that they are bound by the normal rules of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.
As far as the "administrative" side of this question is concerned I don't think there's any real problem. An NCO, accompanied by at least one other person of whatever rank as witness, opens each locker and transfers the contents into an MFO box, listing all the items on the appropriate form which is then signed by the J/NCO, one copy of which goes into the box, one to the QM and one can be retained by the NCO. Used to be standard procedure if the owner was AWOL or whatever. Must agree though, it appears to be a very poor performance on the part of the QM here, and what about the busted locks, who pays for them? The QM I would suggest, I doubt if your insurance would pay up as no crime or accidental damage has occurred and the cost of replacement would be under the "Excess" anyway.

 

[extankie]

I believe the if the RMP wish to search a soldiers locker/room they must first have permission of the unit CO, after that they are bound by the normal rules of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.

The RMP need the authority of an Authourising Service Police officer (ASPO). Capt or above for Army and equivalent for other services. No permission is required from any one else.

 

[aes69]

Don't confuse searching the lockers contents and transfering the contents for storage.

On the authority of the big cheese, the contents can be transfered to storage.

 

[Carlos_Hathcock_II]

Correct, and it can happen at any time, even if you are away on a two week course!

 

[sgnsty]

Surely searching a locker and emptying it for administrative reasons are effectively the same thing? How can you need RMP, witness etc in one case and in the next instance just an NCO and one other? The locker is still being opened and the contents viewed without the owners consent. What if the owner has stuff in there that he wants to remain private?(Before anyone says it, i got rid of all my animal porn before we left for theatre so im not worried!)

 

[chocolate_frog]

The RMP are more stringent because what they find may be put to a court, not just dumped in to a MFO box.

 

[HEART_STOPPER]

I think that hopefully one of your mates from rear party will have sorted this for you and if some knob head in brigade is shouting for his lockers sadly he gets them as there is only so much the accom sgt can do before an officer craps on him (i know im sticking up for them but im G4 and cant help it) also claiming for your ipod/psp or gucci suit means you'll blaim whoever emptied your locker and he'll get flack for it also im pretty sure he wouldnt want to have moved your kit in the first place
I know where your coming from but as sqms bitch this job normally falls to me and its all about trust and knowing that it comes from above

 

[hairyhandbag]

Have seen this happen before so make sure that if you do claim you have the letter of storage authority from whoever sanctioned this.

Also there must be an original request paper trail for the said lockers.

My point is though and it may be a bit bone. How long have the lads got left and will there be any replacement lockers.
Will they be new or old ones.

 

[CAARPS]

Bad, bad, bad, bad admin on behalf of the unit on several counts IMHO.

You are right to feel aggrieved, that someone is poking around your personal kit in your absence. Even more aggrieved that it seems to have happened before you where informed of the situation!!!!!
Your rear party chain of command should have been robust enough to vigorously resist this action.

However, time and again I have seen problems arise because my unit has taken the (easier) decision not to enforce soldiers going on Ops/cse to box their kit, these include:

Money for renovation becoming available at the end of the FY (or at other times), and the block requiring to be emptied for contractors.

Soldiers being posted in (and out) during the tour and the unit having insufficient bed spaces.

Soldiers going AWOL during a course and someone else having to box their kit (sometimes a truly unpleasant experience).

A soldier not returning from Ops (thankfully only once) and the additional upset caused to people boxing his kit, however, procedures for this occurrence are slightly different.

Although it is an emotive subject, making a single soldier box up his belongings and I have sympathy with the lads, unforeseen circumstances happen in 6 months and I would urge (from my experiences) anyone in a position to influence the decision to box kit or not to box kit before deployment, to recommend the proper secure boxing every time.

Unfortunately mate, I think you may have to take it on the chin this time

 

[armadillo]

Bad, bad, bad, bad admin on behalf of the unit on several counts IMHO.

You are right to feel aggrieved, that someone is poking around your personal kit in your absence. Even more aggrieved that it seems to have happened before you where informed of the situation!!!!!
Your rear party chain of command should have been robust enough to vigorously resist this action.

However, time and again I have seen problems arise because my unit has taken the (easier) decision not to enforce soldiers going on Ops/cse to box their kit, these include:

Money for renovation becoming available at the end of the FY (or at other times), and the block requiring to be emptied for contractors.

Soldiers being posted in (and out) during the tour and the unit having insufficient bed spaces.

Soldiers going AWOL during a course and someone else having to box their kit (sometimes a truly unpleasant experience).

A soldier not returning from Ops (thankfully only once) and the additional upset caused to people boxing his kit, however, procedures for this occurrence are slightly different.

Although it is an emotive subject, making a single soldier box up his belongings and I have sympathy with the lads, unforeseen circumstances happen in 6 months and I would urge (from my experiences) anyone in a position to influence the decision to box kit or not to box kit before deployment, to recommend the proper secure boxing every time.

Unfortunately mate, I think you may have to take it on the chin this time

I agree, it happened to me whilst i was on tour. My mate steve made the job last a full month as he meticulously annotated everything. The lads in the QMs were made to wrap stuff up in bubble wrap and fold clothing. My books were boxed, My tv and video hifi were locked in the armoury all wrapped up. There was ten of us on tour and steve looked after our kit with respect. He even wrote to us all individually to apologise for the hassle. On our return we found our rooms with our kit boxed up and the rear party waiting to help us unpack. If all QMs personnel were this diligent and respectfull, no offence would be felt by the lads. I feel for you as we all felt violated and the guy who was llooking after us was pulling out all the stops.

Armadillo

 

[PandaLOVE]

If the lads, RMPs, Officers present conducting the removal of your kit had a drop of scouse blood in them you'll probably find your kit a bit light when you return.

 

[the_butler]

If the lads, RMPs, Officers present conducting the removal of your kit had a drop of scouse blood in them you'll probably find your kit a bit light when you return.

Tosser

 

[the_butler]

If the lads, RMPs, Officers present conducting the removal of your kit had a drop of scouse blood in them you'll probably find your kit a bit light when you return.

Tosser

... World Cup Italia '90. Two separate mates leave me thier room keys with me and ask me to look out for their stuff when they are away for the weekend. One mate owns enough porn vids' to keep Alderdhot going, the other has a TV and video player ............. and don't forget, I have 2 keys. I do not mean to brag but knocking out 12 in 24 hours, is this a record to be ashemed of or proud of? It took days before the gripping finger indents went away .....

Quite literally

 

[Mr_Logic]

Am currently deployed with my squadron on Ops and we have just been told that while we've been away the rear party have gone into the SLA and 'removed' all the lads issued lockers. Apparently this has come from the QM's dept, who had some on loan from another unit on camp. Having 'misplaced' them they have made up the deficiency (at least in the short term) by removing all the lads lockers and giving them away. All the guys stuff has been boxed up and placed into MFO boxes. Before anyone says theat this should have happened anyway before the tour started, we were specifically instructed not to bother boxing our rooms up! Does anybody know what the ins-and-outs of a situation like this are? What if things have been broken/gone missing from rooms that were opened without the owners consent or knowledge?

I think the straight answer is that you have to wait until you return to check if all of your property is present. If on checking, you find that something is missing then you can report it as a theft to the RMP. You should then get a crime number (or som form of reference) that will enable you to claim on your insurance.

Surely searching a locker and emptying it for administrative reasons are effectively the same thing? How can you need RMP, witness etc in one case and in the next instance just an NCO and one other? The locker is still being opened and the contents viewed without the owners consent. What if the owner has stuff in there that he wants to remain private?(Before anyone says it, i got rid of all my animal porn before we left for theatre so im not worried!)

The difference is that between evidence and administrative action. If the RMP are collecting evidence that may result in a conviction, things must be done to a standard that a court will recognise as being fair. The QM's Dept moving stuff are not bound by the same rules. The Armed Forces have worked very hard to retain the right to have a military justice system but it must be in accordance with European Law to protect individuals and the legitimacy of the process.

 

[PandaLOVE]

If the lads, RMPs, Officers present conducting the removal of your kit had a drop of scouse blood in them you'll probably find your kit a bit light when you return.

Tosser

... World Cup Italia '90. Two separate mates leave me thier room keys with me and ask me to look out for their stuff when they are away for the weekend. One mate owns enough porn vids' to keep Alderdhot going, the other has a TV and video player ............. and don't forget, I have 2 keys. I do not mean to brag but knocking out 12 in 24 hours, is this a record to be ashemed of or proud of? It took days before the gripping finger indents went away .....

Quite literally

You frighten me! Red or blue side of the city?

 

[the_butler]

If the lads, RMPs, Officers present conducting the removal of your kit had a drop of scouse blood in them you'll probably find your kit a bit light when you return.

Tosser

... World Cup Italia '90. Two separate mates leave me thier room keys with me and ask me to look out for their stuff when they are away for the weekend. One mate owns enough porn vids' to keep Alderdhot going, the other has a TV and video player ............. and don't forget, I have 2 keys. I do not mean to brag but knocking out 12 in 24 hours, is this a record to be ashemed of or proud of? It took days before the gripping finger indents went away .....

Quite literally

You frighten me! Red or blue side of the city?

RED