Can I sue the Army for negligence over Pay

#1
Can i sue the RAO department or the Army Pay Office, for continually cocking up my pay, if we were on Civ street we could. I'm sick of my pay getting messed up time and time again, I'm trying to buy a house and not having a normal pay statement for the last 2 years odd is really getting on my tIts, and it doesn't help with the mortgage broker or my solicitors, who need normal statements.
And before any blah blah men start banging on about, if you don't like it you shouldn't have joined, or why don't you sign off, and all that bawllocks, i'm not interested, go away, all i need is a sensible answer. Thank you
 
#2
Well I suppose you could sue... I'm just puzzled how you could afford to do it, what with having your pay cocked up and everything (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
 
#3
4 months into a tour I am assured that my fifth pay next month will be correct, but I'm not holding my breath. Ongoing pay issues are really one of the worst parts of military life.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#4
I happened to be giving a finance bod a lift home t'other day and we were talking about pay and he informed me that any organisation that fails to pay its employees correctly is in breach of employment law. I would suggest a formal COs interview followed by a visit to a solicitor....sue the buggers!!
 
#5
You can see your pay statement over the internet now..print it off there, that may help you a bit...
P.S. if anyone can put on the link so you can see this link i also would be gratefull... :D :D
 
#8
Can you not put a complaint in to the CO by letter explaining what has been going on with your pay, stating that if a satisfactory outcome in the next month or so is not seen you will be taking legal advice? Although the fact that you say it is 2 years of **** ups leads me to believe that you may well have hidden your head in the sand more than once hoping it would sort itself out.
 
#9
FFS, do we really NEED to resort to sueing folk, we really are a reflection of the society we recruit from aren't we........

Have you approached the relevant ppl within your chain of command with this?
Have you accurately recorded all of the times you have done so?
Have you approached the RAO and asked for help with it?

There are loads of avenues to take before you get the ambulance chasers involved, yes, i agree that the situation is blatently wrong and if it is as bad as you say, then someone somewhere is due an enormous rocket in the posterior for allowing this to drag on. BUT, and its in capitals cos its a big one, you must bear some of the responsibility for this if you haven't approached the COC with it, if you HAVE and are still ignored, then yeah, cry havoc and unleash the dogs of law (D'ya like that bit, see wot I did there?......).

There are ways to get things done in the Army that dont need to involve the blood-sucking vampires and all the nastiness and expense that employing them brings.

Sorry to be so negative but it pains me to see soldiers leaping for the lawyers when a stiff talking too or even a letter to 'Soldier' mag would acheive sooooo much more and in a firmly respectable and military stylee to boot. Seriously, get the COC involved first.........

BS
 
#10
accidentalscaley said:
Can i sue the RAO department or the Army Pay Office, for continually cocking up my pay, if we were on Civ street we could. I'm sick of my pay getting messed up time and time again, I'm trying to buy a house and not having a normal pay statement for the last 2 years odd is really getting on my tIts, and it doesn't help with the mortgage broker or my solicitors, who need normal statements.
And before any blah blah men start banging on about, if you don't like it you shouldn't have joined, or why don't you sign off, and all that bawllocks, i'm not interested, go away, all i need is a sensible answer. Thank you
The short answer is no.

The long answer is detailed below.

To establish negligence at law it is necessary to prove that

○ The defendant owes the claimant a duty of care
○ The defendant has breached that duty.
○ The claimant suffered loss or damage as a result.

Almost undountedly you satisfy all the criteria shown above however according to a ruling in X (Minors) v Bedfordshire County Council [1995] 3 All ER 353, If a public authority is given a statutory duty to do something this in itself will not give rise to a duty of care being owed.

In other words the MOD is contractually bound to pay your monlthy salary as long as you continue to work for them. That is to say you cannot sue someone for failing to take the appropriate amount of care, when a contractual relationship exists between the claimant and defendant and that relationship is built on an express agreement that the appropriate amount of care will be taken.

There are many occasions where there is concurrent liability in the law of contract (in this case Employment Law) and the Law of Tort (Negligence), however this is not one of them, and you would probably need to pursue an action for breach of contract (a legitimate expectation of regular pay).

There are conflicting opinions on whether negligence at law should or should not apply to suing a public authority (the MOD), but I won't bore the readers any furher.
 
#11
A little more info would be better to make any helpful suggestions. E.g in what way is your pay screwed up?
 
#12
Battsimm said:
FFS, do we really NEED to resort to sueing folk, we really are a reflection of the society we recruit from aren't we........

Have you approached the relevant ppl within your chain of command with this?
Have you accurately recorded all of the times you have done so?
Have you approached the RAO and asked for help with it?

BS
having been on the receiving end of some horrendous pay cock-ups over the last 15 yrs i can completey sympathise with sammy.

Battsimm, get with the programme mate.

When i once received the mother of all pay fcuk-ups i asked for a formal COs interview and was told by the big man to stop whinging, to get on with it and these things happen...and "that even his pay was wrong this month!"

sadly this is the mentality that we're dealing within within the COC, and the regular comments in soldier from a certain Brig reflect this - the "it was ever thus mindset"

regarding sueing their asses... i suspect you probably could, but it would be such a long and complicated process and ultimately it would probably be thrown back at you for not "informing them of your change of circumstances!"

i believe that pay types can now get AGAId if they're proved incompetent, seek advice through your CoC, but i suggest min rank WO2/Maj
 
#13
One big change I did notice on my arrival in civ-div was that fact that pay matters are taken very, very seriously. Not once has my pay been messed up, any payments, allowences etc owed to me are payed on time and never overlooked. In short, the army pay system is serously flawed (and always has been IMHO) with the peopple who are supposed to be running the system at a local level not really being accountable to their customers (a bad phrase, but quite correct in context). When I left in 2000 my re-settlement grant failed to materialise in my bank account. It turned out my old pay master had failed to give me the correct paperwork prior to my departure, and I had to sign on the dole for a few weeks, not an experience I'd like to repete ever again. Was he held accountable? Of course not.
 
#14
goon_bde said:
i believe that pay types can now get AGAId if they're proved incompetent, seek advice through your CoC, but i suggest min rank WO2/Maj
Errrrrrr isnt that what I said?

I'm only gonna do one line answers from now on as no-one reads them, obviously.................

BS
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#16
Ref long post about duty of care-DoC applies where specific legislation does not specify individual circumstances. The pay we receive is as a result of a contract. If the employer does not pay the employee according to that contract they are in breach of the contract and in breach of employment law.
 
#17
Hi

You could always make a complaint, this is a formal complaint, made to your CO who must then act on it. He may, pass it up the chain of command to the Bde where possibly the SPS Branch would look into it - something your RAO would act on as they write his/her CR!!!

Details are in:

Army General and Administrative Instructions, Volume 2, Chapter 70.

This gives you the form and the outline, a bit more reading is in:

Queen Regs: Redress of Complaints - J5.204.

I have seen this used in a similar way where a couple of guys were just hitting their heads against a wall and it forced action.

Hope it helps
 
#18
top advice from BS...get some AGC asses kicked...
 
#19
flash_to_bang said:
Ref long post about duty of care-DoC applies where specific legislation does not specify individual circumstances. The pay we receive is as a result of a contract. If the employer does not pay the employee according to that contract they are in breach of the contract and in breach of employment law.
Dear Flash

You are quite right - this is what I said.

The question is "Can I sue the Army for negligence over Pay".

Suing in contract (Employment Law) is not the same as suing in negligence.
 
#20
I am afraid that the Army system of pay has software errors and has flaws and glitches. As regards commencing litigation think v carefully. You would be seen as an ambulance chaser and if I was a signing of your confidential report then I would pass comment that Sgt X is currently engaged in legal action against MOD Paymaster General plc. Not on my watch I am afraid. There is always a better route than being pugnacious and thinking of a small $$ gain over the Army. Sit down and bullet point what you believe to be wrong with your pay. Then put a in simplistic high level overview of how you want it to be resolved and the outcome that you want. Request a One to One with your OC by informally asking your Warrant Officer if he could get you a One to One as your at the end of your tether fighting the blunty AGC in Handbrake House. Explain to him that you want the OC to task this and for him to sort it out. If your WO2 is good and I have very rarely met one who is not he will get you 10 mins with the boss. The trick is to get buy-in from your SNCO's and Officers. Sell the idea to them that they can go battle with the shinys. Hand over your printed matter to the boss and explain that you can email him a soft copy to his work address. He should then top and tail your document and make it look like his own and the either print it as a Demi Official letter or email it to Handbrake House. I have very little confidence in Army Legal Service as if they were good they would be out at the sharp end in civvie street paid by results. Having said that a good SNCO or Officer cares and nutures his men and fights on their behalf. You may wish to quietly speak to the padre and counsel his opinion. Never ever threaten the MoD though. I wish you look and quite sure that you will get a succesful resolution to this unfortunate situation. Good luck. If you need some advice then PM me. Regards
 

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