Can anyone identify these please?

#1
Evening all,

I have in my posession a couple of Bayonets left to me by my late Grandfather, I know one is British and one is German but thats all I know.

The first one is dated 1907 and has a crown below the handle it has 31 next to the crown, it also has 18 stamped below the date. Im afraid the pictures dont show the detail very well! The scabbard doesnt have any dates on it.

Can anyone shed any light on it for me? I will add the next one in a minute.

Cheers in advance,

Commz
 

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ugly

LE
Moderator
#2
Thats a Pattern 1907 for the Rifle No1 or SMLE
 
#3
This is the second one which im sure is German but Im not sure, the Bayonet itself doesnt have any dates but it has a symbol which looks like 2 squirrels sitting back to back, strange I know but thats the best way for me to describe it!!!
The scabbard has 3 interlocking circles stamped in the leather with 1937 below it.

Once again sorry about the rubbish pictures,

Thanks again,

Commz
 

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#4
Cheers ugly, ive tried googling it now, do you reckon its the British version? There seem to be loads of different types!
 
#6
I think it might be a Seitengewehr 98 pattern bayonet.
..............particularly a sawback bayonet, usually associated with Infantry Pioneers. Unusually, it looks almost complete in that it still has its troddel - that's the dangly, strappy thing - the colours of which (knot, strap, etc) should tell you his rank, Bn, Coy and Pln. A nice thing indeed.
 
#7
Cheers Fellas, They are both immaculate and you have certainly given me something to go on, Time to do a spot of googling!

Thanks again,

Commz
 
#8
Cheers ugly, ive tried googling it now, do you reckon its the British version? There seem to be loads of different types!
Yes, its British. The maker will be Sanderson, Wilkinson or - if you are lucky - Vickers. Its a pattern 1907, but possibly made in 1918, and then refurbished in 1931. An "x" shaped mark is the "bend test" applied to new bayonets. If you post some clearer photos of both sides of the blade, we may be able to give you some more information...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
I was hoping 4T would see this, I dont have much on bayonets apart from Skennertons books and good as they are Bayonets tend to get back seat understandably.
 
#10
Whilst we are on the subject, I have a 1907 pattern bayonet that sadly has some rust, any suggestions on the gentlest way of removing the rust without causing more damage?
 
#12
Whilst we are on the subject, I have a 1907 pattern bayonet that sadly has some rust, any suggestions on the gentlest way of removing the rust without causing more damage?
Usually wire wool and 3-in-1 oil, if the rust is not too deep. 1907 were originally bright steel, but then were generally grey parkerised during refurbishment in the 1930s, or even blued in Australian and Indian service. Hence if you need to get aggressive with the rust, you can use various gun refinishing products to hide the damage!
 
#13
Usually wire wool and 3-in-1 oil, if the rust is not too deep. 1907 were originally bright steel, but then were generally grey parkerised during refurbishment in the 1930s, or even blued in Australian and Indian service. Hence if you need to get aggressive with the rust, you can use various gun refinishing products to hide the damage!
Cheers 4T, I'll give it a whirl and see how it comes out
 
#14
its a dress bayonet, m98 and was 40cm long blade for enlisted men and 35cm long blade for ncos. the frog is black and so prob army (luftwaffe had brown leather apparently)

squirrels is def eickhorn, the 2 conjoined back to back being the original and first mark of this maker having the initials CE underneath them , another mark of these squirrels exsists without the CE initials.
 
#17
Further to other replies, the leather frog is the type that was issued to Home Guard in WW2. 1907 is the pattern bayonet, usually to the right of the stamp will be the year of issue like 6'18 for June 1918.
 
#18
Wow, cheers fellas, I knew someone on here could help me! Dont think I will be selling them anytime soon but good to know I might actually own something that is interesting and has a bit of value!
Thanks again,

Commz
 
#19
The German bayonet justifies some serious looking into. In my opinion it's not a dress bayonet, look at the photo top left where there is a slot in the grip for clearing the rifle lug/cleaning rod recess. This to me indicates an issue rather private purchase "walking out" bayonet (they were never meant for parades and many won't fit a rifle). Three rivets rather than two in the handle indicate early probably Weimar period rather than NSDAP, which would fit with issue rather than dress.

The bayonet knot (Troddel) is for the Polizei and may or may not be original to the piece. There is a regulation way or 2 for it to be tied,yours is wrong in both the tying and in the fact that it should be tied to the frog. Probably worth upwards of £60 on it's own, looks to be good condition.

The frog supports my issue theory as this is not a dress frog. The date of 1937 isn't contempory with the bayonet. By this time Eickhorn were using the single squirrel "at war". Doesn't though mean to say it's made up. Probably another £30+.

Have a look for some other stamps on the bayonet and scabbard, in particular the spine of the blade, the ricasso and on the scabbard under the frog.

In the meantime I'll have a look through my references and see what I can come up with. At the moment I'd say it's three lovely bits I'd love to add to my collection.(Troddel, frog and bayo).
 
#20
Further to other replies, the leather frog is the type that was issued to Home Guard in WW2. 1907 is the pattern bayonet, usually to the right of the stamp will be the year of issue like 6'18 for June 1918.
Yes, it's from the 1939 Pattern Leather Equipment (which was a copy of the P 37 Webbing Equipment) made for training/home based units due to a lack of webbing at the outbreak of war. Go take a look on Karkee Web for geeky loveliness.
 

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