Can anyone help identify this sawn off bundook ?

Patchett44

Old-Salt
IMG_2154.JPG IMG_2148.JPG IMG_2149.JPG I acquired it as part of an auction job lot



Described as a 19thC Military Issue Cut Down And Adapted Rifle/Pistol, Steel Barrel, Wooden Stock With Brass


I actually quite like it, but would be delighted with any help as to its authenticity, and possible value

I thought Google was my friend, but alas, no luck

Regards,
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
Yes. It's a cut down P-53 British rifled percussion-cap musket .570 calibre. Pity to see it cut down - they are still quite good shooters.

See

 
Introduced in 1853 as the Enfield Pattern 1853 Rifle musket-Following from Wikipedia

The Enfield P53 was introduced to Indian troops under British colonization in 1856. The Enfield rifle-musket was a contributing cause of the Indian rebellion of 1857. Sepoys in the British East India Company's armies in India were issued with the new rifle in 1857, and rumours began to spread that the cartridges (referring here to paper-wrapped powder and projectile, not to metallic cartridges) were greased with beef tallow, lard, or a combination of the two - a possibility abhorrent to Muslim and Hindu soldiers or both, respectively, for religious reasons.
British military drills of the time required soldiers to bite open the cartridge, pour the gunpowder contained within down the barrel, ram the cartridge (which included the bullet) down the barrel, remove the ram-rod, bring the rifle to the ready, set the sights, add a percussion cap, present the rifle, and fire. The musketry books also recommended that, "Whenever the grease around the bullet appears to be melted away, or otherwise removed from the cartridge, the sides of the bullet should be wetted in the mouth before putting it into the barrel; the saliva will serve the purpose of grease for the time being".
The idea of having anything which might be tainted with pig or beef fat in their mouths was totally unacceptable to the sepoys, and when they objected it was suggested that they were more than welcome to make up their own batches of cartridges, using a religiously acceptable greasing agent such as ghee or vegetable oil. This seemed to prove that the issued cartridges were, in fact, greased with pig and/or beef fat. A further suggestion that the sepoys tear the cartridges open with their hands (instead of biting them open) was rejected as impractical - many of the sepoys had been undertaking musket drill daily for years, and the practice of biting the cartridge open was second nature to them. Incidentally, after the Mutiny, manuals amended the method of opening the cartridge to, "Bring the cartridge to the forefinger and thumb of the left hand, and with the arm close to the body, carefully tear off the end without spilling the powder. The indifference of many British commanding officers to the problem perceived by the sepoys only added more fuel to the already volatile situation, and helped spark the Mutiny in 1857.

Pattern1853Rifle.jpg
 

Patchett44

Old-Salt
Highlander_Spy / Crash -

Fountain of Knowledge just doesn't cover it.....Many thanks

What would be the effect (to firer & intended target) if you actually engaged someone with the bugger ?
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
Highlander_Spy / Crash -

Fountain of Knowledge just doesn't cover it.....Many thanks

What would be the effect (to firer & intended target) if you actually engaged someone with the bugger ?
Depending on the range, it would put a hole, roughly 0.577" diameter, in them. And given that outer garments would be covered in all sorts of bacteria, if blood loss and shock didn't kill them, septicaemia would.

I've fired them, I have one non-firing P53 (and an elegantly-converted and more practical Snider Enfield Mk II* - both purchased in Afghanistan). They are fun & comfortable to fire and pretty accurate, too. They were game-changers and widely used by both sides in the US Civil War. If you can track down US provenance for the 'pistol' you'll be, err, quids in.

Firing a cut-down pistol version would be interesting, too. To watch, from a safe distance.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
I acquired it as part of an auction job lot



Described as a 19thC Military Issue Cut Down And Adapted Rifle/Pistol, Steel Barrel, Wooden Stock With Brass


I actually quite like it, but would be delighted with any help as to its authenticity, and possible value

I thought Google was my friend, but alas, no luck

Regards,
Edited to add - that will be a wrought iron barrel on the pistol, not steel. This will determine the load and propellant that could be sued. Black Power chaps would fill you in with the details.
 

Latest Threads

Top