Cameron v Juncker showdown - what's going on?

Cutting through the MSM Punch and Judy bollocks on the subject:

Largest grouping in the EU Parliament = EPP.

Their favoured candidate for President of the Commission = Juncker.

The Lisbon Treaty (my bold):

15)

An Article 9 A shall be inserted:

‘Article 9 A

1. The European Parliament shall, jointly with the Council, exercise legislative and budgetary functions. It shall exercise functions of political control and consultation as laid down in the Treaties. It shall elect the President of the Commission.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:C2007/306/01&from=EN

Given that HMG employ lawyers to check this sort of thing, is Cameron stupid or playing the usual EU smoke and mirrors? Or both?
 
In an effort to look like he is doing something on the EU Cameron is clutching at straws
He is desperate to persuade UKIP voters that he is serious on doing something. Anything.

The trouble is that he still thinks being seen to do "something" will do the trick
 
To be fair hes doing the right thing. Sucking fedralist pole to be a 'good european' would be massively wrong. Just cos most of them will doesn't make not swallowing euro **** a bad idea.
 
To be fair hes doing the right thing. Sucking fedralist pole to be a 'good european' would be massively wrong. Just cos most of them will doesn't make not swallowing euro **** a bad idea.

So is he thick or is it play acting? He can't do anything about it.
 
He's looking to the next election; pure and simple. He's seen that the UK population detest the present incarnation of the EU. That allows him to play up to this even though he knows he will lose. Cue next year - promises to push for a revamp in Europe, take back powers and give us a referendum. The year after that will be referendum so poorly phrased that the population will be dis-enfranchised ...
 
He's looking to the next election; pure and simple. He's seen that the UK population detest the present incarnation of the EU. That allows him to play up to this even though he knows he will lose. Cue next year - promises to push for a revamp in Europe, take back powers and give us a referendum. The year after that will be referendum so poorly phrased that the population will be dis-enfranchised ...

Risky though isn't it? Because these shenanigans reveal yet again how powerless the UK actually is in the EU... and that's been deliberately obscured for a long time.
 

Iolis

LE
He is attempting a re-run of Mrs Thatchers veto of Jean Luc Deharn whom she regarded as 'too federalist' for her liking. Unfortunately for Cameron, he has little idea how the changes brought about by the Lisbon Treaty operate or that qualified majority voting now operates to a much greater extent than had previously been the case. The result is that Britain has a voice but is no longer the voice able to exercise a veto.

Unlike the British Parliament whose legislature is dominated by the executive with a Prime Minister at its head as an 'elected Monarch', the EU Parliament is much more democratic. It it not dominated by any one particular party leader controlling the vote through the party whips. It is deeply frustrating for Cameron that he cannot impose his will on the European Parliament as he can with with the Parliament in the UK. The strength of the EU system is that unlike the UK none of the institutions can dominate the other. There is a much stronger separation of powers. The Parliament does not dominate the Commission, and the Commission do not dominate the Parliament, nor does the European Council dominate either the Commission or the Parliament. Here, the executive dominate the legislature and, to a much greater extent than before, the judiciary.

Cameron wants a complete repatriation of the powers under what was once called the 'social charter' when it was a protocol attached to the Maastricht Treaty which John Major opted out of and which subsequently became an integral part of the Amsterdam Treaty which adopted by the government in 1997. If he gets his way, the public can kiss goodbye to their remaining employment rights. Of course, he is not actually going to tell the public that. Its all concealed beneath the mantra of 'reform' and kept deliberately vague with Europhobia standing in is as a substitute for substantive analysis of the nature and extent to which the government intend to 'shaft' the public and reward the business sector.

I do hope Mr Junkers succeeds as President of the Commission and that Cameron is put back into his box as the insignificant and ineffectual little man he is.
 
Well, if the DT is anything to go by it is getting deeply personal...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Fears-over-Jean-Claude-Junckers-drinking.html

There's a more than a whiff of BS about that article isn't there.
"Sources also described how Mr Juncker “chain-smoked” through a series of meetings on Thursday and disclosed that he is attempting to get rules changed so that he can smoke in buildings in Brussels"

I'd love to believe both of the above but don't.
 
There's a more than a whiff of BS about that article isn't there.
"Sources also described how Mr Juncker “chain-smoked” through a series of meetings on Thursday and disclosed that he is attempting to get rules changed so that he can smoke in buildings in Brussels"

I'd love to believe both of the above but don't.
The Economist does mention his particular kind of networking... especially late at night and thus loosing his position in Luxembourg.

Of course all this goes back to the way the EU is run. I like living in the EU but over the last two weeks as my Civil Servant students have given their end of course presentations I've heard of several new EU organisations being established! This is just playing into the hands of UKIP.
 

wrinkles

Old-Salt
Cameron said if Juncker gets elected he will bring forward the referendum. Will he quietly forget that statement?
 
It seems to me that the enlargement of the EU has diminished Britain's stature in it. We just haven't got it yet that what we say these days isn't as important as we would like to think it is.

Is it just me or am I picking up vibes that other EU members are starting to form a mindset of a EU without Britain as a member? A kind of "look, if you are going, just hurry up and get the wheels in motion to piss off so the rest of us can get on with it!"

I think we are being put in our place and that's not surprising to be honest. If you keep whining all the time that you don't want to be in the club unless you get your way, people start to dislike you sometimes quite intensely.
 
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philc

LE
So the President of the Commission is put forward by the EU political group with the most MEPs, far enough that makes sense. However why do they not choose a President from members that have been elected as opposed to some one who has not been elected by any one to be first a MEP or who has put himself forward to be the leader of the group with most MEPs and voted in?

Also the various government leaders should have no input in to this decision.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
@Iolis

Thanks for your lengthy post on the EU democratic make-up. May I say I think what you said was complete bollux!

The. EU, as described by you, is not a super democracy, it is more of an Anarchy. Also your post really was not about democracy at the EU but an anti-Cameron rant.

An analogy of what is happening in Brussels would be the Prime Minister of the UK being decided by the First Ministers of the UK constituent countries, with them putting forward a 'placeman' just to piss off the English and telling them to suck it up.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
(snip)

Unlike the British Parliament whose legislature is dominated by the executive with a Prime Minister at its head as an 'elected Monarch', the EU Parliament is much more democratic. It it not dominated by any one particular party leader controlling the vote through the party whips. It is deeply frustrating for Cameron that he cannot impose his will on the European Parliament as he can with with the Parliament in the UK. The strength of the EU system is that unlike the UK none of the institutions can dominate the other. There is a much stronger separation of powers. The Parliament does not dominate the Commission, and the Commission do not dominate the Parliament, nor does the European Council dominate either the Commission or the Parliament. Here, the executive dominate the legislature and, to a much greater extent than before, the judiciary.

(snip)

Given that the EU constitution was developed specifically to limit the power of elected representatives, particularly in policy development where they have no power at all beyond the ability to say no, how on earth do you come to the conclusion that the EU Parliament is 'more democratic'?

The EU is not interested in democracy and never has been - in fact it's always been deeply suspicious of it. It is interested in conformity to a centralised, statist model where policy is developed and driven by the Commission - it has been from day one and that's what its constitution is designed to deliver.

As for Cameron, he's certainly using the opportunity to show his back-benchers that he will oppose a 'federalist' but there is probably a genuine self-interest too. His current position on the EU is to argue to stay in on the basis of modified membership conditions and to head off the referendum on that basis.- that position is looking less and less tenable and even more so if Juncker gets the job. At least this way he either wins (unlikely) or, at the very least, he's identified the cause to be blamed by the British public when his best efforts to get a revised membership agreement fail - as they almost certainly will.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
It seems to me that the enlargement of the EU has diminished Britain's stature in it. We just haven't got it yet that what we say these days isn't as important as we would like to think it is.

Is it just me or am I picking up vibes that other EU members are starting to form a mindset of a EU without Britain as a member? A kind of "look, if you are going, just hurry up and get the wheels in motion to piss off so the rest of us can get on with it!"

I think we are being put in our place and that's not surprising to be honest. If you keep whining all the time that you don't want to be in the club unless you get your way, people start to dislike you sometimes quite intensely.

I think some countries feel that way (France most notably) but a large number - the Scandanavians, Holland, Poland - appreciate the UK running interference as the only possible counter to France/Germany. They also appreciate our taking the blame for rocking the boat too.
 

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