Cameron To Publish In-Out EU Referendum Bill

#1
Cameron To Publish In-Out EU Referendum Bill
David Cameron is to publish a draft bill that will guarantee the British public an in-out EU referendum by 2017.
The Prime Minister is to seize the initiative amid internecine squabbling within the Conservative party and propose laws that will pave the way for a vote on whether Britain should remain in the EU.
A senior Conservative source said the party would "examine all opportunities" to bring the legislation before Parliament - including using the vehicle of a private member's Bill.
The source also held out the prospect of such a Bill being granted Government time, although the Liberal Democrats have not signed off on the idea.
The draft bill is to be published tomorrow, the day ahead of an amendment to the Queen's Speech expressing "regret" that an EU referendum was not on the agenda.
A growing number of Conservative MPs had signed up to a parliamentary motion calling for legislation on an EU referendum expected to spark a divisive vote in the House of Commons.
News of the bill came after Mr Cameron received a boost from Barack Obama in his battle with Conservative rebels over Europe during a joint news conference on his US trip.
Mr Obama supported the Prime Minister's stance saying: "You probably want to see if you can fix what's broken in a very important relationship before you break it off. Seems to make sense to me."
Sky News Deputy Political Editor Joey Jones, who is with the Prime Minister in the US, said: "David Cameron is trying to seize the initiative on the whole Europe issue by going it along, publishing a bill that is not a Government bill. How could it be because the Liberal Democrats don't buy into it and say they are non-plussed by the Prime Minister's actions.
"But it's a bill that he hope will force the Liberal Democrats and particularly Labour into putting up or shutting up on the whole idea of a referendum.
"Win or lose David Cameron will be able to say to the British public: 'Well I gave it a shot and, no ifs, no buts, I will be pressing ahead with the referendum if I am elected Prime Minister in 2015."
A senior Lib Dem source said: "The Conservatives are free to bang on about Europe as much as they like within their own party. Rather than spend time debating an internal Tory trauma on an issue where the Government has a clear position, the Liberal Democrats will focus on jobs and growth."
They added: "We're a bit nonplussed that the Conservatives keep moving the goalposts."
Education Secretary Michael Gove and Defence Secretary Philip Hammond both said on Monday that they would vote to leave the EU if there were a referendum today.
Ministerial aides Stuart Andrew and Gavin Barwell said they would back the amendment after Downing Street took the unusual step of saying that parliamentary private secretaries (PPSs) are free to do so without losing their jobs.
Ministers have been told they may abstain but not vote for the amendment.
Mr Cameron said he regarded the status quo in Europe as "unacceptable", but rebuked those - like Tory grandees Lord Lawson and Michael Portillo - suggesting the UK should pull out now.
Speaking alongside Mr Obama in Washington, Mr Cameron said that it was in the UK's interests to try to reform the European Union and Britain's place in it.
He said: "Is it in Britain's national interest once we have achieved those changes, but before the end of 2017, to consult the British public in a proper, full-on in/out referendum? Yes, I believe it is.
"That's the approach we take. Everything driven by what is in the British national interest. That is what I'm going to deliver. It's absolutely right for our country. It has very strong support throughout the country and in the Conservative Party and that's exactly what I'm going to do."
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B

Bertie Basset

Guest
#3
Cameron To Publish In-Out EU Referendum Bill
David Cameron is to publish a draft bill that will guarantee the British public an in-out EU referendum by 2017.
The Prime Minister is to seize the initiative amid internecine squabbling within the Conservative party and propose laws that will pave the way for a vote on whether Britain should remain in the EU.
A senior Conservative source said the party would "examine all opportunities" to bring the legislation before Parliament - including using the vehicle of a private member's Bill.
The source also held out the prospect of such a Bill being granted Government time, although the Liberal Democrats have not signed off on the idea.
The draft bill is to be published tomorrow, the day ahead of an amendment to the Queen's Speech expressing "regret" that an EU referendum was not on the agenda.
A growing number of Conservative MPs had signed up to a parliamentary motion calling for legislation on an EU referendum expected to spark a divisive vote in the House of Commons.
News of the bill came after Mr Cameron received a boost from Barack Obama in his battle with Conservative rebels over Europe during a joint news conference on his US trip.
Mr Obama supported the Prime Minister's stance saying: "You probably want to see if you can fix what's broken in a very important relationship before you break it off. Seems to make sense to me."
Sky News Deputy Political Editor Joey Jones, who is with the Prime Minister in the US, said: "David Cameron is trying to seize the initiative on the whole Europe issue by going it along, publishing a bill that is not a Government bill. How could it be because the Liberal Democrats don't buy into it and say they are non-plussed by the Prime Minister's actions.
"But it's a bill that he hope will force the Liberal Democrats and particularly Labour into putting up or shutting up on the whole idea of a referendum.
"Win or lose David Cameron will be able to say to the British public: 'Well I gave it a shot and, no ifs, no buts, I will be pressing ahead with the referendum if I am elected Prime Minister in 2015."
A senior Lib Dem source said: "The Conservatives are free to bang on about Europe as much as they like within their own party. Rather than spend time debating an internal Tory trauma on an issue where the Government has a clear position, the Liberal Democrats will focus on jobs and growth."
They added: "We're a bit nonplussed that the Conservatives keep moving the goalposts."
Education Secretary Michael Gove and Defence Secretary Philip Hammond both said on Monday that they would vote to leave the EU if there were a referendum today.
Ministerial aides Stuart Andrew and Gavin Barwell said they would back the amendment after Downing Street took the unusual step of saying that parliamentary private secretaries (PPSs) are free to do so without losing their jobs.
Ministers have been told they may abstain but not vote for the amendment.
Mr Cameron said he regarded the status quo in Europe as "unacceptable", but rebuked those - like Tory grandees Lord Lawson and Michael Portillo - suggesting the UK should pull out now.
Speaking alongside Mr Obama in Washington, Mr Cameron said that it was in the UK's interests to try to reform the European Union and Britain's place in it.
He said: "Is it in Britain's national interest once we have achieved those changes, but before the end of 2017, to consult the British public in a proper, full-on in/out referendum? Yes, I believe it is.
"That's the approach we take. Everything driven by what is in the British national interest. That is what I'm going to deliver. It's absolutely right for our country. It has very strong support throughout the country and in the Conservative Party and that's exactly what I'm going to do."
More follows...
My Bold. There's a first time for everything I suppose.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
he is about three steps behind the public back pedalling like crazy, this has been and gone as an option as the public know that he cannot guarantee his place at the next election so its an empty promise, too many back benchers and ex high rollers have pointed out that a 2017 referendum will be lucky to get us out by 2020 when we will have no troops left to go back in.

the papers sensing an embarassment for all political parties seen as out of touch and ignoring the public and a source of nice easy stories are pushing for something either on election day or before the scots one.

even labour are realising that their leader doesn't cut it so they need a positive policy to back while they try to stop the drift from red to purple. front bench are chuntering while the back bench are looking at their fragile majorities.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
when they all get hammered next year at the Eu and locals there will have to be changes at the top.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#6
Lilly livered wretches. It really is time they thought about having some sort of policies.
Thatcher would have ripped the lot of them apart.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
even jamie oliver is sick of every party trying to occupy the middle ground, fortunately he hasn't said he will vote ukip but he does say he like the way they are making the main parties jump about a bit :)
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
#10
Maybe another John Major 'Back me or sack me' scenario will give Mr Cameron the spine to lead & show the Country he has what it takes and quell the doubters.

I understand trading with his EU buddies, UK Business interests & diplomacy is a key element but I hope he gets a harsher ride than Gordon Brown did when the Immigration recording hit the news. It's probable the wake up call he deserves.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Whatever Call Me Dave does, it will fall flat on its face for a very simple reason - the bulk of the electorate will realise he is not doing it out of conviction, but to try and stop changing public opinion eroding Conservative support. As such he comes across as totally insincere.

Call Me Dave also has the problem that Farage is a conviction politician. Like or dislike UKIP policies, most people understand that Farage has a strongly held belief that the UK is better off exiting the EU. Any attempt that Cameron makes to parallel that position comes across as weak and insipid.

The only way that CMD (and the Conservatives) will ever gain credibility on this is to risk a breach with the Limp Dems and write a referendum into law for 2015, with negotiations on changes to the UK's relationship with the EU starting now. Anything less will only be seen as weasel words by a politician desperate to stay in power but without the moral courage to address the problem.

A draft bill for a 2017 referendum is kicking the tin can down the road in order to avoid the question - a fact most of the electorate are aware of.

Wordsmith
 
#13
the LimpDums won't wear a refereda for 'In' and 'Out', nor will the Ministry of Propaganda and Lies of Brussels like this. The Communist leadership of the EU won't wear it either.

Either they will shout and roar, or threaten all sorts of 'dire revenge' against Perfidious Albion for what might happen if Blighty comes out of the Eurine land. However, as I understand things, under Article 50 of the 'Treaty of Rome', ANY member state has the right to cecede from the EU withut let or hinder.

As far as Mr Cameron and his team trying to 're-negotiate' the UK's terms in the EU - this won't happen. Those same Euro-communists at the heart of the EU have made it clear (allegedly) that this won't be happening. Mr Dave will, like Chamberlain waving a peice of paper and declare 'Victory'. Dream on pal, The Marxianization of the EU will slowly continue.

The majority of folks against the EU, are NOT against Europe, or individual countries over there - it is the Political bureaucratic mess called the EU.
 
#14
Whatever Call Me Dave does, it will fall flat on its face for a very simple reason - the bulk of the electorate will realise he is not doing it out of conviction, but to try and stop changing public opinion eroding Conservative support. As such he comes across as totally insincere.

Call Me Dave also has the problem that Farage is a conviction politician. Like or dislike UKIP policies, most people understand that Farage has a strongly held belief that the UK is better off exiting the EU. Any attempt that Cameron makes to parallel that position comes across as weak and insipid.

The only way that CMD (and the Conservatives) will ever gain credibility on this is to risk a breach with the Limp Dems and write a referendum into law for 2015, with negotiations on changes to the UK's relationship with the EU starting now. Anything less will only be seen as weasel words by a politician desperate to stay in power but without the moral courage to address the problem.

A draft bill for a 2017 referendum is kicking the tin can down the road in order to avoid the question - a fact most of the electorate are aware of.

Wordsmith
Question is would he?

Clearly if he had a majority it could be written into statute and that would be the end of it. Woe betide the electorate vengeance on any subsequent government which repealed it. Particular as and when the Eurozone finally implodes.

His best strategy at the moment is to come clean why he cannot put a bill into statute and embarrass his coalition partner and Milliband as to why that is.

He needs to demonstrate once and for all to the electorate that they are not going to get a referendum under Labour which is the only other real player for the next Government.

Meanwhile UKIP watches and waits.
 
#16
Probably been already said but is not another condition of Cameron's current pledge that he must be elected as Prime Minister in a next Conservative Government .... so if a Conservative Government is elected and he stands aside ... no referendum ... and it is this sort of shenanigans which the electorate has really finally wised up to thus creating a surge in UKIP because of what seems an unconditional referendum on our future with the EU .

I have been around long enough to distrust anything that the three traditional main parties promised and Farage , like him or loathe him , has now burst into the political arena and speaks it as it is . He seems to be offering what the electorate want concerning their ability / right , many for the first time , to determine their future in the EU .

I just think the electorate will not be fooled again by Cameron's latest proposal which will doubtless be yet another fudge , veiled promise , conditional vote , kicking can down the road exercise but if he ignores the electorate this time it will be at his peril .
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
His best strategy at the moment is to come clean why he cannot put a bill into statute and embarrass his coalition partner and Milliband as to why that is.

Meanwhile UKIP watches and waits.
Cameron is effectively trying that - he's allowing a backbencher to publish a draft bill that he knows full well will be voted down by the other parties. It is political manoeuvring, not a serious attempt to put a bill into place. All parties - not just the Conservatives - have had a tin can kicking exercise in place for a number of years now. That's because opinion polls have fairly consistently shown an anti-EU majority and allowing a referendum would let that particular genie out of the bottle.

What is clear is that the rise of UKIP is proving a game changer. Here's the latest poll information from the Guardian.

Polls.png

UKIP have now eclipsed the Limp Dems and are chewing into Labour and Conservative support. How much of that support is a protest vote remains to be seen - but both Labour and the Tories are going to have to change their political positioning to respond. The problem both of those parties will have is that it will be seen as being done out of short term opportunism and not out of conviction.

The other problem both the Conservatives and Labour have is that by adopting a more anti-EU stance, they legitimise the UKIP position in the eyes of more of the electorate. Short term manoeuvring of the type that CMD is now engaged in only helps UKIP long term.

Wordsmith
 
#18
I seem to recall the Liberal Democrats advocating before the election, in fact, all the way back to when Charles Kennedy was leader, in favour of an in/out referendum to, as they put it, "lance the boil" once and for all.

I rather suspect that will prove to be about as much worth as their tuition fees pledge, or their supposed commitment to civil liberties.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
UKIP is catalysing a sea change in politics on two counts.

Home of the Discontented

It is clear that withdrawal from the EU is a popular option with a very substantial part of the electorate. Most have given up on the main parties actually giving them a vote. Voting UKIP then becomes a way of expressing that discontent and increasing pressure for a referendum.

UKIP has also become a way of expressing discontent with the Tories, Labour and the Limp Dems in general. Whether that is a permanent change remains to be seen, but the steady erosion of the support for the main parties must be a worry for them. The Limp Dems in particular seem to be drifting into electoral oblivion.

Any emerging party consistently getting 20% in the opinion polls is going to cause a shift in the stance of the existing parties to stop further erosion of their support. Expect more publicly expressed 'Euroscepticism' from Labour and the Tories - however insincere that will be.

And expect UKIP to poll well in the European elections next year - causing yet more angst in the established parties...

Conviction Politics

The last major change in political tactics was Blair in 1997, when he brought in the concept of triangulation - positioning your party so it is attuned with what focus groups say the majority of the electorate like. All parties subsequently adopted the strategy resulting in policies with only minimal differences between them.

Like him or loath him, Farage is a conviction politician - he has views and expresses then. So does Boris Johnson (although I have a suspicion there is a lot of calculation behind his 'spontaneous' utterances). In the Conservatives Gove and IDS are actually bringing about a sea change in their respective areas - although the bulk of ministers are still colourless drones.

Labour and the Limp Dems seem to lack politicians with any thoughts outside of the latest focus group findings.

But I think we're moving away from the area of triangulation and blandness back to politicians saying what they think. And even if Farage achieves nothing else, he deserves our gratitude for making forthrightness in politics more fashionable again.

Wordsmith
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#20
Worsdmith, fully agree, for too long we've not known the opinions of politicians and it's made it hard for me to vote for them. I love that Farage says what he thinks, doesn't mind being filmed having a cig and a pint. I do find him rather engaging but I do also at least know what his policies are or some of them.
 

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