Cameron to Open thousands of Comprehensives

Kaka, why should less able kids hold back others? kids should be graded according to their ability. In some subjects they may well be in the top level others they may be in the bottom. Grading kids as you call it or putting them into forms as I do doesn't mean they have to stay in those forms forever, if they show sufficient ability and aptitude in a particular subject there's nothing stopping them moving up to a "clever" form, likewise if they struggle they can get dropped down. That way the school can allocate the best teachers to each form. The kids that struggle are allocated more resources in the form of extra help and tuition than the "flyers" who are in turn allowed to continue their studies without continually being dragged backwards.
 

Sven

LE
PsyWar.Org said:
Sven said:
To put it simplistically (there are many sub arguements that will come out as the thread progresses).

The reason that grammar schools do better than their surrounding schools is due to selection. The brightest pupils are cherry picked and therefore the schools get better exam results. Because of these better results parents aspire to send their children to the grammar school, the better teachers want to work at the supposedly better schools and so the grammar schools win both ways.

Meanwhile the surrounding comprehensives do not have the choices of their grammar school neighbours.
And that's exactly how it should be. The brightest children should be taught at a higher level than the average student. There's nothing worse than a class being taught to the lowest common denominator as so often happens.
So there's no such thing as streaming in comps then?
 
Sven said:
So there's no such thing as streaming in comps then?
Morning Sven,

Bothered to look at the streaming video of the Commons debate on Afghanistan/Pakistan yet?
 

Sven

LE
chocolate_frog said:
Bring back the 11+ and bring back streaming and houses.

Once the kids are in a class with their intellectual peers you will find they progress better... as they are not being left behind nor moving to slow. If a teacher spots a child who might be better in the thicker or smarter class the child can be moved up or down.

It isn't neccesary to have seperate schools, this streaming could occur within the same building... ergo, the better teachers wont run off but will be employed in the same schools as the others.

Now bring in a robust system of suspensions and expulsion, with special category schools for those who really are troublesome, and we are away....

Oh and School Uniform is mandatory, checked on the gate. No tie, no entry.

It isn't hard to make a good education system.... what makes it hard is trying to please everybody at the fairness and equality of your system, when it is far better for hte child to be educated than just cuddled.
So there is no such thing as streaming and houses in the comprehensive system? Of course there is. I believe that uniforms are now compulsary, albeit some do not have ties.
 
kaka said:
these comments are totally unfair because if you start bringing back streaming you will have kids who are struggling in school being out in to the lower grades where as if they had a support assistant with them they could stay in the grade they are all ready in.I totally disagree with bringing in with special category schools for those who really are troublesome.
All children should be treated equally and these problems should be addressed sensitively
Please explain why my children must be brought down to your half-wit level in the name of "equality"?
 
Sven said:
whitecity said:
Sven said:
So there's no such thing as streaming in comps then?
Morning Sven,

Bothered to look at the streaming video of the Commons debate on Afghanistan/Pakistan yet?
And why should I?
So, once again, you demand evidence from others (whilst failing to provide any of your own), and when it's presented, you refuse to look at it. Why?
 

Sven

LE
whitecity said:
Sven said:
whitecity said:
Sven said:
So there's no such thing as streaming in comps then?
Morning Sven,

Bothered to look at the streaming video of the Commons debate on Afghanistan/Pakistan yet?
And why should I?
So, once again, you demand evidence from others (whilst failing to provide any of your own), and when it's presented, you refuse to look at it. Why?
This has what to do with this thread?
 
Sven said:
This has what to do with this thread?
Nothing whatsoever.
 
Sven said:
whitecity said:
Sven said:
This has what to do with this thread?
Nothing whatsoever.
WC, you have had your chips. for the forseeable future kindly don't address any posts to me as they will not be answered
I shall post where and when I like and not be beholden to your whim. You may do as you like.
 

Sven

LE
It also turns out that the comprehensive system was in fact brought in by a Tory government
 
I think the decline in social mobility that's occurred over the last 15 years is because grammar schools provided the best way of giving poor bright kids a leg up.
 
Sven, if selection is so bad why is it that every other mainstream European country has selective education systems, France, Germany, Holland Denmark, Sweden and Italy all have selective (ie streamed by ability) education systems. Holland has 4 types of school ranging from the Gymnasium (not athletic) to the normal schooling. Testing of pupils takes place on a weekly basis, no SATS at 11 and 14. Exams and assessments take place in the 5th year and it is based on those results as to whether further education is available.

Grammar schools became hated because of the politics of envy. I went to a Grammar school, I passed the 11+ twice (due to a quirk of parents postings) and was given a place at a good grammar school, for which my parents contributed some of the cost, the remainder was from a HM Forces education scheme (my parents werent rich by any means). There were pupils from all walks of life there, and not least to mention that the poorest were also sponsored by either scholarships provided by a trust at the school, or via the assisted places scheme.

It was not selection based on the ability to pay, more on the ability of each and every pupil's own efforts. I had no assistance in passing either of the 11+ exams that I took, save for the encouragement of my own parents, something that should be available to all children if they have a normal family background.

New Labour's first rulings on education was to abolish the assisted places scheme, and then plot to destroy the Grammar schools by bending democratic methods to do so. They have maintained their onslaught against these schools throughout the past 12 years, and continue to do so by divisive means.

I note that most of the Cabinet have attended grammar schools themelves, and they like their offspring to attend schools of a similar standard, if not a grammar school. Why are they so hell bent on depriving others the chance of a good education, without any bearing on ability to pay or their social class, while taking the benefit of it for their own families.

I am against Cameron on his education policy, having experienced the Grammar school system, I believe it actually works well, and gives a rounded and thorough education. This country needs well educated children to go through university (not the former polytechnics) to study sciences in order to maintain the excellent understanding of sciences and technology in industry that we have been used to for the past 800 years. Sadly I feel that a Comprehensive school system will not provide the necessary educational drive to enthuse and encourage our future generations to go on and become the technological masters that once existed in this formerly great nation.
 
Theres only 164 grammer schools left in the whole country so bit of a red herring really.
system never worked secondary moderns were a dumping ground and the technical colleges were never built :x
Dave is just telling it as it is no point going back to a failed system. yes grammer schools worked but the rest of the system did'nt.
 
Sven, the local schoolsin my area do not have houses anymore.... competition is bad. I am surprised they still ahve football teams.

Streaming is down to an absolute minimum. I only know of foreign languages and, in a few schools, maths being streamed.

kaka said:
chocolate_frog said:
Bring back the 11+ and bring back streaming and houses.

Once the kids are in a class with their intellectual peers you will find they progress better... as they are not being left behind nor moving to slow. If a teacher spots a child who might be better in the thicker or smarter class the child can be moved up or down.
It isn't neccesary to have seperate schools, this streaming could occur within the same building... ergo, the better teachers wont run off but will be employed in the same schools as the others.

Now bring in a robust system of suspensions and expulsion, with special category schools for those who really are troublesome, and we are away....

Oh and School Uniform is mandatory, checked on the gate. No tie, no entry.

It isn't hard to make a good education system.... what makes it hard is trying to please everybody at the fairness and equality of your system, when it is far better for hte child to be educated than just cuddled.
these comments are totally unfair because if you start bringing back streaming you will have kids who are struggling in school being out in to the lower grades where as if they had a support assistant with them they could stay in the grade they are all ready in.I totally disagree with bringing in with special category schools for those who really are troublesome.
All children should be treated equally and these problems should be addressed sensitively
Are you on smack?

a "support assistant"? How about we put the thick kids in the thick class where the teacher can support and assist the learning of the whole class?

Taken to its logical conclusion EVERY or at least a large majority of kids in a class would require some sort of assistant, either to bring them up to the class average, or help them beyond it (if they were smarter).

Or we could just test the year, split them on grounds of ability and crack on.

kaka you are a fcuking imbecile.
 

Sven

LE
Bob

We do have streaming in comprehensive schools. The difference between streaming and the grammar school system is that a child streamed in a comprehensive still has recourse to the facilities of that school, no matter what his placement.
 
Sven you are full of sh1t, streaming in comprehensive school has nothing to do with it, there were streams in Grammar schools too. The type of education is the major difference, not whether there was a slow or fast lane in the same subject.
 

Generalissimo

Old-Salt
Germany has a multi-tiered education system which works rather well for them. It is similar to our old system of Grammar schools whereby in Germany you get to a certain age (i'm not sure which), then you go to either a Gymnasium (Grammar), normal school or a school which is just for those who want to enter a particular trade and where they focus on apprenticeships and the like. Works well for them, would work well for us. Due to their system they have very few independent school which are apparently what the Tories (!) are trying to get rid of...
 

Latest Threads

Top