Calling all NBC experts .. Yanks reckon that Gulf War Illnesses has now been solved.

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#2
"The largest example of "Friendly Fire" in American history."

As they say, you could not make this up, or could you?
 
#3
Perfectly feasible... As a colleague of mine said recently, 'the thing about the Americans is that they have a lot of firepower and they are not afraid to use it, regardless of the consequences.' Quite prescient, I think.
 
#4
If true, it's a bit of an interesting dilemma, but I wouldn't exactly call it friendly fire.

How many of our troops would have died due to Iraqi chemical attacks if they'd had the chance to use them? Versus how many have died or become sick due to 'Gulf War Syndrome' since?

Hell of a decision to have to make at the time, and one that 20 years of hindsight doesn't make any easier-
 
#6
About sodding time I went to that shit hole fit and came back half dead when round two kicked off my best mate was in the med centre giving the jabs so no jabs for me.
When I applied for my war pension I found that they had a section set up for any one that was in GW1 or Two very strange.
 
#7
If true, it's a bit of an interesting dilemma, but I wouldn't exactly call it friendly fire.

How many of our troops would have died due to Iraqi chemical attacks if they'd had the chance to use them? Versus how many have died or become sick due to 'Gulf War Syndrome' since?

Hell of a decision to have to make at the time, and one that 20 years of hindsight doesn't make any easier-
i fully agree with your sentiments Tartan_Terrier, however, surely before taking out a major chemical weapons storage faculty one would have to take into consideration where the fallout would go, maybe the yanks did this and had to simply choose which option was the less of the two evils.

It is certainly no secret that our NAIAD Nuclear, Biological, Chemical detection equipment was going off ten to the dozen at this particular time only to be latter branded as "faulty" by senior commanders and by the establishment which i am not convinced was true, on the other hand, a pinheads worth of Biological or chemical weaponry on your body and it's "Goodnight Saigon" but obviously this did not happen ..thank god.

******* strange one this.
 
#9
i fully agree with your sentiments Tartan_Terrier, however, surely before taking out a major chemical weapons storage faculty one would have to take into consideration where the fallout would go, maybe the yanks did this and had to simply choose which option was the less of the two evils.

It is certainly no secret that our NAIAD Nuclear, Biological, Chemical detection equipment was going off ten to the dozen at this particular time only to be latter branded as "faulty" by senior commanders and by the establishment which i am not convinced was true, on the other hand, a pinheads worth of Biological or chemical weaponry on your body and it's "Goodnight Saigon" but obviously this did not happen ..thank god.

******* strange one this.
hysteria.jpg
 
#10
If this was a totally legit story why haven't the mainstream press been all over it, ( prior to the 24 hour coverage of the Connecticut shootings). I'm always skeptical when I read things like: "Gulf War veteran Paul Sullivan, a highly respected veterans advocate who works at Bergmann & Moore, a law firm that handles veteran disability claims, tells me this morning, "For more than two decades, no one believed us when we said we are sick, and no one believed us when we said we were exposed to chemical weapons, including sarin, cyclosarin, and mustard gas. Now we finally have overwhelming scientific evidence that must immediately force the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to provide healthcare and disability benefits, including presumptive benefits for chemical exposures." It just seems so contrite that a Law Firm that Handles multi-million Dollar claims for GWS would "finally" get the answer they want.

Obviously we can't deny that Post War PTSD exists, but I believe that, as with many other things, a cottage Industry springs to life with all kinds of "Experts" and "Psychologists" looking to either make a name for themselves or make money off the problem.

The Article even admits that: "55 percent of the 36,794 Gulf War Illness claims filed by 1990 – 1991 veterans under a 1994 law were approved by the VA." which seems to me to be a High Percentage of approved claims and proves that serious attention was paid to the problem.

It's a tough call, no one wants to deny legitimate claims, but nor should the taxpayers pay for bogus claims. So where do you draw the line.?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#11
I was an NBC instr during GW1, and took an active interest in these issues for some time after, but not anymore.
This does not seem to contain any new information, its just a new report into events that have been analyzed several times before - with inconclusive conclusions.
It is clear that GW1 was a bit lacking on the health and safety front, but it could have been a whole lot worse. Those who were there can probably remember what they were thinking in Jan '91, and long term health issues did not feature as high as short term ones.....a thought track that probably went right to the top. Couple that to operational needs, and its not hard to join the dots.
The important thing is that guys who need help get it, and that sadly does not always happen, but trying to prove one or a combination of causes is a hiding to nothing and solely a domain for lawyers.
The fact that a lot attempts appear to have been made by various parties to whitewash the whole episode in various ways is also nothing new, it appears to be SOP for the UK gov since time immortal - but then you knew that when you signed on....
 
#12
...Those who were there can probably remember what they were thinking in Jan '91, and long term health issues did not feature as high as short term ones.....a thought track that probably went right to the top. Couple that to operational needs, and its not hard to join the dots...
Agreed. I doubt that many would have minded chemical and other munitions being taken out of the picture.

As to the story, I've heard similar before about a fallout plume triggered by the demolition of Iraqi stocks after ENDEX. Not sure I had heard about this one so early in the conflict.

At the time most of (UK) Armd Div would still have been South of Kuwait, and further from the plume sources (of course distance is not the only factor influencing exposure). In view of different locations it would be interesting to know if there are any differences between US Army (VII Corps etc) and USMC in the illnesses reported.
 
#13
I was an NBC instr during GW1, and took an active interest in these issues for some time after, but not anymore.
This does not seem to contain any new information, its just a new report into events that have been analyzed several times before - with inconclusive conclusions.
That is very fair comment Alsaien, it's just the " two new peer-reviewed scientific research studies whose findings are being released this week" bit of this report that makes this interesting because James J. Tuite, who led the first study, is a former special agent with the U.S. Secret Service, the second study is led by Dr. Robert Haley, chief of epidemiology at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Centre in Dallas.

I don't know what agenda these two credible heavyweights would be trying to attempt if this story was complete bollocks.
 
#14
I don't know what agenda these two credible heavyweights would be trying to attempt if this story was complete bollocks.
What possible agenda could a Veterans Affairs advocate have? Veterans Affairs money? Research money? How come your imagination which is so active in some areas is brain dead in others? Nerve agent poisoning?

It's more probable that those suffering from Gulf War Syndrome are suffering due to exposure to pesticides which were sprayed with casual abandon or the from the effects of the medication taken, specifically pills containing pyridostigmine bromide. Much more likely than nerve agent poisoning due to the numbers involved. Yes? That doesn't suit your conspiracy theories though does it? Links:

Dallas researcher

Nerve Deficits May Drive Gulf War Syndrome

Be careful, there's some science in those links.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
have any studies been done into any instances of the local civilian populations who may have had similar exposures? have any of them displayed similar symptoms?
 
#16
have any studies been done into any instances of the local civilian populations who may have had similar exposures? have any of them displayed similar symptoms?
It's a bit more complex with the local civpop Maguire - they have poor health generally, are interbred to feck and have variable access to medicine. If you're in the Army or RSAF you're sorted - village in the sticks? Meh...mebbe's. Lots of not nice bugs about. Add to that the fact that Haj brings people from all over the world to spead exotic disease and you have a cocktail for illness. Malaria? Spray insecitcide everywhere, which they did.

I took no medication so didn't go through any of the bad reactions that some did, especially with the anthrax. The worst I got was a very bad case of viral conjunctivitis post war. The crap from the well fires didn't do anyone any good either mind.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
It's a bit more complex with the local civpop Maguire - they have poor health generally, are interbred to feck and have variable access to medicine.
gpwm.
 
#19
i fully agree with your sentiments Tartan_Terrier, however, surely before taking out a major chemical weapons storage faculty one would have to take into consideration where the fallout would go, maybe the yanks did this and had to simply choose which option was the less of the two evils.

It is certainly no secret that our NAIAD Nuclear, Biological, Chemical detection equipment was going off ten to the dozen at this particular time only to be latter branded as "faulty" by senior commanders and by the establishment which i am not convinced was true, on the other hand, a pinheads worth of Biological or chemical weaponry on your body and it's "Goodnight Saigon" but obviously this did not happen ..thank god.

******* strange one this.
Ahh the man of shit talks more shit.

The Nerve Agent Immobilised Enzyme Alarm and Detector, strangely detects and alarms for nerve agent - NOT nuclear or biological agents.

Fallout from a Chemical weapons store? Try downwind hazard vapour. Two points here.

First, the field expedient method for disposing of chemical or biological munitions is to use excessive explosives. Air dropped munitions are capable of this and the stacks of munitions would probably consume themselves.

Second, even the most persistent chemical agents will disisipate after a known period of time, a commander would be unlikely to place friendly forces in this area/time period or if they did due to strategic advantage it would be under chemical warfare conditions which we are trained for.

You're a dick, **** off and do some research before posting again.
 
#20
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