Discussion in 'Gunners' started by Gmonster, Sep 19, 2006.

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  1. The Manning, Staffing and use of a Close Support (CS)Arty Fire Planning Cell in my view and many others has always been a bone of contention.

    I would be interested to hear the views of anybody who has or is a crew member of a Fire Planning Cell on the following issues.

    1. Just who is the FPC Commander? Capt, WO2,SSgt, Sgt.
    (After trawling through the majority of the CS Regts no two appear the same, i.e some have Bdrs some have Sgts and some have SSgts.)

    2. Is an FPC Crew properly intergrated and trained during Bty and Regimental Excercises
    (Most FPC's appear to be used as nothing more than Fwd End Safety during thease types of Exercises.)

    3. Has Crewman 2000 helped with the manning and career path within the FPC.
    (Where does the BC's Ack go at the end of his tenure? does he become the FPC Comd does the FPC Bdr Step up as the FPC Comd on promotion.

    I am also interested in knowing if CS Regts are able to correctly man their FPC's and how they manage the crews training, given that in reality apart from Tgt levels 1 - 4 the only other courses are the Jnr Tac Tgt Cse and the All Arms Tac Tgt Cse.

    I would ask and stress for those that are interested in helping me compile this info please be weary of PERSEC and OPSEC, im not after Individuals names and for any Regt CS Units i will ask you to send that to me over DII or TAFMIS so you know said info is going to a secure place.

    Hopefully this type of info will aid in the formulation of a Doctrine type note. For all the sceptical types out there i have already approached units with this over DII and TAFMIS and on the phones to units but the info is slow in coming hence this call for help on Arrse.

    Please feel free to pm me with any info no matter how big or small.
  2. I too am also interrested in this information, i have a little bit of work done on this subject and will pm you it. good luck on your results and send me a copy of your final findings
  3. No problems thanks for the information.
  4. gee are you on fella?
  5. I will never forget former CRA 1 Div suggesting that the FPC comd should be the BK! The BK that he suggested it to nearly had a heart attack!! It probably should be the senior/junior FOO (if we ever had a surplus) - as we don't, it needs to be someone who can hold the respect of the supported arm's OpsO. I have known very good SSgts and Sgts holding this post.

    Invariably not, they have to wait for their Battlegroup's exercise to get training - oh yes, that does mean that they do twice the number of exercises than simple gun bunnies... It is a problem with nights out of bed, more so if your supported BG is based outside your garrison.

    It should do in theory, the progression that I have seen is FPC Bdr to BC's ack or CP Sgt (depending on previous skills) to FPC SSgt. From there, there is limited chances of advancement within the FPC but there are in the FDC... I am not convinced that we have this right...

    Gmonster, hope this is of help and will spark some discussion.
  6. IMHO it should be a GCC (Tgt) WO2 or SSgt. While it would be great to employ a Captain in the FPC, the fact remains that there are usually none 'spare' to employ in there, and they are far better employed out on the ground as an FOO. We spend a great deal of money training people on GCC (Tgt) so let's use them in a role where they will add loads of value.

    The simple fact of the matter is that without a Maneouvre Arm to support and integrate with, the FPC struggles to find a role on purely Gunnery exercises. Sure, they can handle allocations and maintain current battle picture, but without the flow of tactical information flowing around a HQ, there is plenty of spare capacity. Look how hard FPCs work on CASTs for example!

    I'll go one step further than Drop_Short and state that I believe Crewman 2K is utterly broken and unsustainable. If the BC's Ack is sufficiently high calibre to attend GCC (Tgt) in due course, then return to the FPC as a WO2 or SSgt, then all well and good; but some aren't that good. I can remember the FPC being used as a dumping ground for people who weren't quite good enough to be Acks, and I suspect it's still much the same. The problem is that Crewman 2K actually restricts wider employment across the Tac Gp - the days of having an Ack who was also a DC Sigs (i.e. under Crewman 85) are long gone - and this mix of qualifications is precisely what an FPC needs. Under the new system, the only time you will experience anything approaching this broad palette of capability is with either a really old and bold Bdr (do they still exist?) or a GCC trained soldier.

    All NCOs employed in the FPC should attend the AATT cse as well.

    GM - hope this helps, and if you need more, drop me a line!
  7. It is and thanks very much,

  8. Thanks very much ill do one better ill buy you a brew!!

    GMONSTER :D :D :D :D :D :D
  10. I was a career OP Ack and was FPC SSgt in BATUS with 2RTR in summer of 2002 and had a fantastic working system with the OPsO of 2Tanks(thru the mud and the blood to the green fields beyond)
    He was an aussie and a good fella.
    Greatest satisfaction started firing an harassment and interdiction fireplan at half three in the morning for him him to ask from his doss bag who firing that, for me to answer - Us - ain't it grand.

    Respect of supported Arms comes from only 3 things
    On Time
    On Target
    And safe.

    And an additional 2 things- basic armoured soldiering skills, and a knowledge and adherence to host Unit SOP's
  13. In my small humble opinion.

    Training for FPC crews is second to..........well lest say almost none existant unless on BG trainer/ Catt/ Cast, not the fault of the Regt but you cant get training working with a battle group HQ if you are not with it.

    As for manning i have been ona few FPCs and it a joke. The Op Troop could just about provide their own manpower without placeing bums on seats in the FPC. Went through a BATUS with 3 on the crew plus a Capt acting as Air Liasion Officer (for want of better words). Thank god we had a very good relationship with BG HQ (Thanks to just getting BOWMAN and all helping each other getting that working).

    As I recall the 8005 says you need 2 x Bdr 1 from Tgt and 1 from CPA never gonna happen or it hasnt on the crews I have been on.

    I think that the FPC is overlooked and does a vital job. more training should be given.

    Oh and the BDR should get Higher rates of pay seeing as He is spending as many nights out of bed as the OPs.....(Sorry sore point)
  14. Meiktilaman makes a great point!!!
    Post GCC candidates on the OP's! are u on glue.
    I was at the school for 2 1/2 years in the firing battery and seen 3 courses come through and for some of the selected few binos are something you put rubbish in and fieldcraft is making stuff out of Grass!!

    And don't even get me started on Tactics some of them thought they were mints.

    No good point that must be one intensive week on GCC to enable them to take on an FPC. something I spent 23 years on and off learning how to do to a good standard.

    As a NASA engineer once said You can train a monkey to fly the Space Shuttle....

    But you can't stop it scratching its ARRse with a banana!!!!