Call to end ban on affairs between officers and ranks

#1
A former commanding officer in the Women's Royal Army Corps will call today for the ban on sexual relations between officers and other ranks to end.

Dr Diana Henderson, who is now an academic at Queens' College Cambridge, says that the number of women serving in the Army makes the ban impractical, outdated and possibly illegal.

The move comes a year after an industrial tribunal backed the Army's decision to force a female warrant officer out of the Army for having an affair "between the ranks" with a cavalry major.

Dr Henderson will also argue that women should be allowed to join the Parachute Regiment, putting them on the front line of fighting but it is her insistence that relationships between the ranks should be allowed that is likely to cause the most controversy, with the Army increasingly struggling to keep troops from breaking the rules.

She has a wealth of experience in the Armed Forces, having served for 33 years in the Army, initially in the Women's Royal Army Corps, where she commanded a regiment, and later in the Royal Logistics Corps.

The large numbers of women joining the Army and working directly alongside men meant the ban was no longer feasible, she said yesterday. Speaking ahead of her lecture at the University of Bath, Dr Henderson said: "That sort of thinking is old-fashioned now. Does it really reflect modern life?

"And if not, where is the compromise to be found between service discipline, military effectiveness and real relationships in the modern world?"

Dr Henderson, who left the Army five years ago, will argue that the Army has failed to come to terms with the changing role of women in modern society. Some regiments in units such as the Royal Logistics Corps have more than a third of personnel who are female, Dr Henderson said. It is "unrealistic, impractical, old-fashioned and in some cases illegal to allow these attitudes and rules to persist," she will say in her lecture.

She will also give warning that the sexual harassment of women in the Armed Forces remains a problem that must be tackled by the service chiefs. A female warrant officer in the Royal Logistics Corps, WO2 Angela McConnell, was thrown out of the Army after having an affair with Major Alastair Ross, a senior officer in her regiment.

WO2 McConnell argued unsuccessfully that she was harassed into the relationship by the major, a senior officer in the King's Royal Hussars.

She also alleged that Army rules under which she was forced to leave without an immediate pension while he was allowed to keep his were discriminatory. The tribunal heard that officers in the regiment wagered bets with each other as to who could seduce the regiment's lesbian stable maid and sleep with other female colleagues.

Although the Army has changed many of its traditional rules, for example dropping its ban on homosexuals, it remains an offence under Army regulations for any commissioned officer to have a sexual relationship with any other rank.

Tests to see whether women could fight with front-line troops were abandoned after the Director of Infantry complained that they were made so easy that they were little better than "aggressive camping".

At present, women can fly combat aircraft in the RAF, sail on warships in the Royal Navy and perform 70 per cent of Army roles, including serving with the field engineers and the artillery but they cannot serve with the infantry or on board submarines.
Well matron! :D
 
#3
well, if i wasn't such an ugly cnut, I'd be cheering this, as i'd get a chance to bag my troopy off.
 
#5
What ban? :oops:

I thought that it only applied if one reported (CR) on the other!

Now where did I put my solicitor! 8O
 
#6
He only did it because she was ginger and it was funny.

The best bit of the article is the 'aggressive camping' - I'll use that one from now on.
 
#7
I knew a Major who would definitely have got it , and she used to look me up and down every chance she got too.

Sadly no longer wth us :cry:
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
You should read what she has to say about ECBA, army funding, and morale (it's all on the BBC website)
 
#9
PartTimePongo said:
I knew a Major who would definitely have got it , and she used to look me up and down every chance she got too.

Sadly no longer wth us :cry:
that wouldn't be on a guard mount would it PTP , thats called an "inspection"

it doesn't mean you can stare back like ian brady in a nursery.
 
#10
LOL nooooooooooo , not on inspection , and using me first name too :D

Very nice lady and cute as a button.
 
#11
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
and here she is during her press conference

You could accuse Diana Henderson of many interesting/unusual/sinister things but never of being a "boot faced scammell-arrsed ginger american mong" Is the picture of "Laura" from the "Ultimate-Force" Gallery?

Here for those that have not encountered the Officer in question is a publicly available photo
 
#12
galgenberg said:
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
and here she is during her press conference

You could accuse Diana Henderson of many interesting/unusual/sinister things but never of being a "boot faced scammell-arrsed ginger american mong" Is the picture of "Laura" from the "Ultimate-Force" Gallery?

Here for those that have not encountered the Officer in question is a publicly available photo
they could be sisters :p
 
#13
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
galgenberg said:
come_to_arrest_the_zulus said:
and here she is during her press conference

You could accuse Diana Henderson of many interesting/unusual/sinister things but never of being a "boot faced scammell-arrsed ginger american mong" Is the picture of "Laura" from the "Ultimate-Force" Gallery?

Here for those that have not encountered the Officer in question is a publicly available photo
they could be sisters :p
Only to someone"local"who has never left his "home valley" :lol:
 
#14
I listened to this woman on 5 Live this morning and both she, the journo presenting the programme and all those who phoned in were well out of date on this one – all described it as “illegal”. It is not either in law or within army rules (AGAIs etc) - unfortunately the actual position was not put forward by anyone. Any relationship is subject to the “military test” i.e. will it negatively impact upon operational efficiency. The “rule of thumb” is that if the person is in your chain of command – DON’T. If they are not, then GENERALLY it’s OK. I know of a number of people who openly have relationships across the “rank divide” none are employed in the same unit for what to me are self-evident reasons.
 
#15
Agree..
it would not do to have a relationship between ranks if they were serving together in same unit or one had chain-of-command authority, etc.. over the other.. too easy to see perks given or retribution handed out from a lover's spat.. There are enough examples in business to show the way to go.. See that the head of Boeing Aircraft was sacked because he was a married man having an affair with an executive in another division of the company [ no authority, no reporting ,no influence' suggested ']..
so climate is there for ' puritanical ' attitude toward such relationships developing good or ill..
having said that, however, the more women inducted into the forces, the more attraction and pairing off there will be [ similar attitudes, interests, proximity, etc. etc..] and for morale and operational imperatives this situation will have to be resolved in some consistent manner..

Think its a bit much that the woman got slagged and her pension cut when the man didn't.. they both should have taken the same hit since they were both deemed ' at fault ' for the same offence..
 
#17
RiojaDOC said:
I listened to this woman on 5 Live this morning and both she, the journo presenting the programme and all those who phoned in were well out of date on this one – all described it as “illegal”. It is not either in law or within army rules (AGAIs etc) - unfortunately the actual position was not put forward by anyone. Any relationship is subject to the “military test” i.e. will it negatively impact upon operational efficiency. The “rule of thumb” is that if the person is in your chain of command – DON’T. If they are not, then GENERALLY it’s OK...
I didnt hear that interview, but if Dr Henderson described such relationships as "illegal" it would have been a rather surprising mistake for her to make. I understand that her distinguished background includes a law degree, and time in practice as a solicitor.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#18
Isn't it great how these f*ckwits have all of these opinions after they get out of the service and are on a pension. They don't make much noise when they are in and on a damn good wage, great social life (less the sh*ging of ORs that is :wink: ), get skivvied after and live in better houses than the rest of us, do they?

Standards........the Army Officer is full of them, usually double ones.
 
#19
Heard her on the p.m. programme on R4. She was making strong inferences to a 'special friend' that she had had when serving who was an OR.

Unbiased opinion and no axe to grind then. :D :D

Perhaps someone should send her a copy of values and standards and let her know what the Army policy is as she clearly hasn't got a scoobie.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#20
She looks like the sort of chick who would have a 'special friend'............a dungarees wearing 'special friend'.
 

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