Call To Arms For Scottish Arrsers

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#1
Ladies and gentlemen of Scotland, especially those who disagree with how the smoking ban was implemented here last year. Please give your attention to:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/petitions/docs/PE1037.htm

Ask your MSP to support this petition to stop the slide of business which is closing down our places of public entertainment and killing employment.

Another bingo hall has closed - a refuge for the pensioners of Musselburgh this time. They're too old to change. Let's make our voices heard and, whilst recognising the need for a ban, ask our so-called government to allow public venues and private clubs to make adequate, supervised provision for those who can't kick the habit.

NOTE: This is not an invite for the anti-smoking lobby to have their voices heard on this thread. You too have the power to contact your MSP and ask him/her to make your opinion known.

This legislation was forced on us without referendum. Let the voice of democracy be heard now. The 'ayes' will have the day.
 

Auld-Yin

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#2
GDav

I think you have put the wrong petition form up. You should have used the epetition section if you wish people to sign up with you.

Couple of points from me though. The Musselburgh bingo has been suffering a drop in customers for some time now. They have been drawn away to Gala bingo just a short bus journey away who offer bigger prize money and better facilities. Smoking was just the issue that put the final nail in the coffin (pun intended). (Before Biscuits jumps in I am not a member). What has also closed is the snooker hall which was owned by the bingo hall owners. So it is a loss of 2 facilities - both of which can be accessed fairly easily elsewhere.

I am a non smoker. I was agin the smoking ban myself when it was proposed for basically the same reasons as yourself - a dicktat rather than a democratic decision. However, since then the pubs have been better, the beer tastes better, there is not a constant 'fog' in front of the large TV screen when watching sport. The ban is recognised by all and while the smokers certainly don't like standing in the rain for their particular fix they accept it. Indeed several have said that they smoke less now and are glad for it.

I doubt your petition will get very far on a site like this and to get widespread backing would require a national paper taking this up. Not going to happen mate.

Yours

A-Y
The Honest Toun
 

Auld-Yin

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#3
GDav said:
Auld-Yin said:
GDav

I think you have put the wrong petition form up. You should have used the epetition section if you wish people to sign up with you.

I doubt your petition will get very far on a site like this and to get widespread backing would require a national paper taking this up. Not going to happen mate.

Yours

A-Y
The Honest Toun
For a start mate. The petition system at Holyrood works differently to the one you've seen in operation at No 10. The petition here is signed by the public in person then the complete list is handed in. The contents of which will be placed before the house by the petitioner himself/herself when called upon to do so by the house. What we must do is e-mail our MSPs and draw their attention to the petition. I am aware of three similar ones being presented to Holyrood at the same time and can anticipate more.

.
GDav - try this link Scottish parliament epetitions

It appears they have a very similary system to that used in another place. In it they say that you can use both paper and epetitions but duplicate names will be removed (I assume from one list only!).

Try it - maybe you will get a supporter.

:thumright:

A-Y
 

Fugly

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#4
GDav, have you even considered that people who live in Scotland, who are affected by this, might want to discuss this?

It's no good simply saying "They can make a decision for themselves". Some people might want to hear both sides of the argument from different angles, before making their decision.

That is what forums are for.

You presented the information. Fine - thank you.
You don't want to debate on it, your mind is made up - Fine, your decision.

But others may not be as sure as you, and wish to discuss it, and are going to be rightfully upset when all they get is a torrent of abuse from yourself.
 
#5
GDav why dont you give us your opinion, on why you think we should vote for smoking area's in public places, maybe we would be more responsive to a two sided debate on the subject. Just a thought.
 
#6
To everyone: this forum is not for bickering. Please calm down and let the thread run in peace. It's a serious post in a serious forum. I've removed the bulk of it to allow a return to the point.
 
#7
Fugly said:
GDav, have you even considered that people who live in Scotland, who are affected by this, might want to discuss this?

It's no good simply saying "They can make a decision for themselves". Some people might want to hear both sides of the argument from different angles, before making their decision.

That is what forums are for.

You presented the information. Fine - thank you.
You don't want to debate on it, your mind is made up - Fine, your decision.

But others may not be as sure as you, and wish to discuss it, and are going to be rightfully upset when all they get is a torrent of abuse from yourself.
I did not give anyone a torrent of abuse. All I asked for was that it not be debated on here because:

a. it's an emotive subject which would soon degenerate into abuse and name calling - which is exactly what happened.
b. the idea of putting a private petiton forward to Holyrood is a slightly different affair to Westminster. The petitioner himself is called to the floor of the house to put his point to the assembly and to present the signatures he has collected in support of his plea.

The concept of the post is to make other posters from Scotland aware that such petitions need to be supported by MSP's in order to succeed because a vote will be taken in the house after the petition is presented. As Holyrood is Labour dominated we have to get the message across to Labour MP's that the law, as it stands, is not a good law and needs some exceptions made to it.

If this is succesful it sets a precedent for England and Northern Ireland as their bans come in this year. As this is election year it's more liable to get a fair hearing and some sort of concession.

There is no opportunity for people to present an e-petition the same way as they can for Westminster matters. Even e-petitions must be submitted in e-mail form for scrutiny before they will be posted - if they are accepted.

I suggest we don't discuss this further as it will give the wrong impression of why the post was put here. Please accept it for information only - not me trying to make a point.
 
#9
Good CO said:
To everyone: this forum is not for bickering. Please calm down and let the thread run in peace. It's a serious post in a serious forum. I've removed the bulk of it to allow a return to the point.
GCO,

I understand why the thread was cut earlier on. However, I have to ask - what is the point? If the point is no debate and endless bumps from GDav, we will have it.

If there is to be no debate, can we not simply have this locked please? People can still see it and GDav will have his wish of individuals being able to see it in the lists if they choose.
 
#10
in_the_cheapseats said:
Good CO said:
To everyone: this forum is not for bickering. Please calm down and let the thread run in peace. It's a serious post in a serious forum. I've removed the bulk of it to allow a return to the point.
GCO,

I understand why the thread was cut earlier on. However, I have to ask - what is the point? If the point is no debate and endless bumps from GDav, we will have it.

If there is to be no debate, can we not simply have this locked please? People can still see it and GDav will have his wish of individuals being able to see it in the lists if they choose.
The thread does not require to be locked and I will bump it occasionally to allow more people to see it and have a chance to visit the petitions website.

That is what I've agreed with Admin.

I've also provided you with an explanation as to why I want it to run this way. If you want to start a discussion on the subject please do so and PM me to let me know where you have started it and I will gladly debate the subject.
 
#11
GDav said:
I did not give anyone a torrent of abuse. All I asked for was that it not be debated on here because:

a. it's an emotive subject which would soon degenerate into abuse and name calling - which is exactly what happened.
So you calling me 'a tWat' and inferring people were 'mongs' is what exactly?

Note to GCO - im pretty shocked that this has been restarted given the amount of ABUSE that GDav dished out earlier.
SP
 

Auld-Yin

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#12
Good CO said:
To everyone: this forum is not for bickering. Please calm down and let the thread run in peace. It's a serious post in a serious forum. I've removed the bulk of it to allow a return to the point.
You are having a good weekend GCO - NOT. Two of the posts you removed were mine; one of which pointed out that the shutting of the bingo in Musselburgh was not totally down to the smoking ban. Secondly I pointed GDav in the direction of the epetition which he seem to think did not exist north of the border.

I realise that, for whatever reason, you have decided to act as SuperMod this weekend, but there is no way you can leave GDav's post as it stands without the chance to dispute the point he is starting from.

If this is a serious post then allow the discussion. If this is to be a one-sided post - then perhaps the whole post should be deleted.

Has PTP gone into purdah in readiness for the elections the reason you have taken over his MOD duties on this forum?
 

Fugly

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DirtyBAT
#13
Auld-Yin.

I think you are being a bit harsh on GCO here. 90% of that thread was utter pish, your comments and possibly 2-3 others were valid.

You can't reasonably expect CGO -or any other mod - to sift through a pile of shite looking for the diamond. The whole lot went in the bin for a good reason.

Lets keep it on topic - Your (deleted) point was a very good one, please state it again for us all and lets debate this sensibly.
 
#14
Probably easier to start up a new thread so GDav can sit on his triumph and the rest of us can debate it properly without GCO getting involved again. :roll:

Auld-Yin - want to do the honours with your post?
 

Sixty

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#15
Triumph? Starts a thread were he and he alone can stipulate who or who cannot post on it. Is quite rightly taken to task, verbally abuses those that took him to task and then goes running to Admin who unbelievaly back him?

I wonder if others would be given similar leeway?
 

Auld-Yin

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#16
Not really mate as that is not the point IMHO. GDav started a thread - quite rightly so and the diversity of items discussed on Arrse is one of the main reasons for its success.

However they have to be discussed and not turned into one-way arguements.

What I was trying to put across in my post was that the closing of the bingo was not just because of the smoking ban but that the ban was the final nail in the coffin; and also that another, better venue was a short bus ride away.

GDav's natural response was that elderly people would find that distance difficult. I accept this but would responbd with the fact that many of the people who were not driven there by their family used taxis with their council taxi-card which means that the cost to them is the same regardless of the distance. Obviously some people will be put inconvenienced (prob not the right word) by the shutting down of the Musselburgh bingo but it was going that way anyway. All the smoking ban did was bring forward the date.

I have no problem with people signing the petition - which they can't unless they find GDav and get the bit of paper as he has not put up the link to epetitions given in my link which was deleted by GCO.

Rant over - I'll have my tablets now please nurse.
 
#17
Yeah I too am quite shocked GCO. Now the narcissistic Gdav will think he can carry on stipulating wgo and what can be said on threads. he didn't want debate on this thread (in a debate forum - shock horror0 but as soon as one person agreed with them he praised them and continued to call everybody else mongs.
 
#18
Thread edited.

I appreciate emotions are running high over the earlier thread , but can we please just approach this in a serious and mature way.

Thanks

PTP.
 
#19
in_the_cheapseats said:
Probably easier to start up a new thread so GDav can sit on his triumph and the rest of us can debate it properly without GCO getting involved again. :roll:

Auld-Yin - want to do the honours with your post?
I don't have a Triumph but my wife has an MGF - will that do instead?
 
#20
GDav said:
in_the_cheapseats said:
Probably easier to start up a new thread so GDav can sit on his triumph and the rest of us can debate it properly without GCO getting involved again. :roll:

Auld-Yin - want to do the honours with your post?
I don't have a Triumph but my wife has an MGF - will that do instead?
Wind it, wide boy - stick to your bumps without being a smart arse and follow PTPs directions - we are :threaten:
 
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