call me cynical but.....

#1
does anybody else feel that the recent awards are a nice way for labour to try and win back the armed forces vote prior to the elections?

dont get me wrong, those lads are all fully deserving of recognition, as are many others, but I cant help feeling that giving out a vc and such is great press for Herr Blair and his cronies
 
#2
It will not affect the way I vote by one iota!
Heroism is heroism, toady politicians are completely another! I would hope the panel agree on this point.
 
#4
I don't think that the government should have gotten rid of the DCM MM etc. After all these were medals for gallantry on the part of Other Ranks.

To me it just seems like change for its own sake. It all seems to have gone a bit Septic to me. The ribbon for the CGC looks very like the ribbon for the Silver Star.

Also the DSO is supposed to able to be awarded to OR's as well now (please correct me if my understanding is wrong) but since the changes they have only ever gone to Officers.

However, much as I despise Bliar and his band of freeloaders and halfwits, I don't think that the recent award of the VC to Pte Beharry was cheapened any by it being under a Labour Government. The award of the VC to Rambahadur Limbu, in the 60's, during the Borneo campaign, was, IIRC, under a Labour government, yet, no one doubts, he deserved his.
 
#5
The VC was deserved but others should have got them too, namely the SF who took part in the cave fighting in Afghanistan, they didn't get them, but then again there was no election looming at the time.
 
#6
I Must admit When the Iraq war started the first thought that popped into my head was how many VC are going to be handed out.

My next question is Why didn't the other member's of the vehicle crew like the gunner or the comander get medals or VC's? Note: I haven't actualy read an after action report on it, so I have no info.
 
#7
Listy said:
My next question is Why didn't the other member's of the vehicle crew like the gunner or the comander get medals or VC's? Note: I haven't actualy read an after action report on it, so I have no info.
Not sure term for award of VC is 'handed out' They do not do them as RME.
Full explanation is all over the place. Do us the favour of reading ( or having read to you) and you will learn something to your advantage.
 
#8
Duck Dodgers said:
I don't think that the government should have gotten rid of the DCM MM etc. After all these were medals for gallantry on the part of Other Ranks.
This was John Major's idea. He failed to make the distinction between the MM and the MC (both for bravery but the latter with an element of exemplary leadership) in spite of having it explained to him by officers and ORs alike.
 
#9
Listy said:
My next question is Why didn't the other member's of the vehicle crew like the gunner or the comander get medals or VC's? Note: I haven't actualy read an after action report on it, so I have no info.
They were too busy being saved to do anything heroic. The poor sods were unconcious in the back at the time.

Go read the torygraph 2 page spread. Almost made me cry.
 
#10
Duck Dodgers said:
Also the DSO is supposed to able to be awarded to OR's as well now (please correct me if my understanding is wrong) but since the changes they have only ever gone to Officers.
There is no reason in theory why anyone shouldn't get a DSO. But it is not a gallantry award as such, but an award for outstanding and sustained command of a combat operation (there was briefly a time when DSOs were given for operations in NI, but not for a while now). These criteria tend to rule out more junior ranks.

Personally I feel that the MC/CGC for all ranks is a good thing as these awarded for specific events. The QGM and GM have always been 'rankless', and they seem to have fulfilled their purpose.
 
#11
Ok found out what happened... ALL previous coments fully and unquivacbly retracted.

Thought I was pullign the pin on a grenade when I posted, now I knows I was right.
 
#12
chimera said:
Duck Dodgers said:
Also the DSO is supposed to able to be awarded to OR's as well now (please correct me if my understanding is wrong) but since the changes they have only ever gone to Officers.
There is no reason in theory why anyone shouldn't get a DSO. But it is not a gallantry award as such, but an award for outstanding and sustained command of a combat operation (there was briefly a time when DSOs were given for operations in NI, but not for a while now). These criteria tend to rule out more junior ranks.

Personally I feel that the MC/CGC for all ranks is a good thing as these awarded for specific events. The QGM and GM have always been 'rankless', and they seem to have fulfilled their purpose.
I said:
This was John Major's idea. He failed to make the distinction between the MM and the MC (both for bravery but the latter with an element of exemplary leadership) in spite of having it explained to him by officers and ORs alike.
Chimera, the MC and MM had different criteria thus Major's 'egalitarianist' gesture was misguided. This is what comes of having peacetime politicians!
 
#13
Two points/questions:

1. I didnt know that politicians had a say in what medals were given out. :?:

2. That boy is a fcuking hero, not once but twice! - VC's don't fall out with the Corn Flakes, election year or not.
 
#14
theloggie said:
I didnt know that politicians had a say in what medals were given out. :?:
No, I think they're outside the awards loop itself but they can fiddle with the nature of the medal i.e. abolish it or re-invent a new PC version etc.
 
#15
There was a couple of section commanders from an infantry regiment out in NI got DSO's for leading their sections against an IRA attack on their base when they returned from their patrols. There was a painting and citations in the conference room at 3BDE when I was at the Sig Sqn in 99
 
#16
the platoon comd got the MC too. i believe he was wounded in the first action too and both he and the VC were back in action for the second incident for which the VC was awarded.

my view on this is that anybody sitting 4 feet from where a guy gets a VC on 2 occasions has just had one hell of a ride!! :D
 
#17
Beharry did well and I for one am proud of the man.
Who gets what has always been a sensitive subject in any military formation that holds it's self with pride.
I have mentioned before I have a drink say twice a week with an old warrior from Burma, he did Jan 42-Aug 45 and still has pride in his old Corps RE and the Brit/Indian soldier in general.
He can and does tell many a tale of those who received the highest award and thoes who did not.
Delicate subject, politics both military and cival cum into matters which in all reality should remain 'Clean'.
Well done Beharry VC.
john
 

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