Caffiene versus Creatine

#1
Ok, i'll admit it, sometimes I go out for a run or do a cft and to be honest I feel a bit old. Not because I consider myself to be unfit or because I like to get ratted and drink the mother in law under the table, but just down to the fact that I'm getting a bit past my sell by date.

Anyway, enough about that, lets talk about me. Im not going to see my 30's again, am an average height and build. I run 3 times a week and go to the gym at least twice. Im no superman ( mainly due to the fact he's dead ) but I have in the past done a marathon.

These days when I go on courses the majority of bods seem to be nearly half my age, I need to keep up with them, I have to be a leader - due to my rank, and also need to keep up with them to save face. I refuse to be Mr Bumble bringing up the rear with the fat wheezy kids. (So to speak )

In the past I've trained using sports drinks, sports gels and the like, which mostly seem to contain carbohydrates.

However these days I've seen a lot more products on the market containing Caffeine, and of course more and more Creatine and the like. Now I now Creatine is meant to be "ok" because its a naturally occuring substance in the body and apparently an effective lactic acid blocker but what about caffeine .......How does that compare against sports drinks, creatine etc etc.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#2
Caffeine is used to lean yourself, and help burn that little bit of extra fat. It's not supposed to be a performance enhancer.

Creatine is used to help provide bulk when working out on the weights, also not a performance enhancer.

Unless things have moved on.......
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#3
No don't use caffeine i'll search my reference books, something to do with it being a vasoconstrictor and reducing cerebral blood flow. Wait out.
 
#4
Ive tried a few things, one caffeine based product I tried was called Tight Extreme or something or other, it gave me a huge caffeine rush, felt like I had bags of energy, masked some aches and pains, also contained mood enhancers - all in all it was good stuff. BUT - side effects were a little nasty. It dropped you like a sack of shit later in the day when it wore off, made you more irritable and bad tempered, headaches and you needed more and more of them if you took them often as the body built up a resistance to them. All in all I would say they were ok for one off energy boosts for specific physical tasks but i wouldnt use them as a training aid. Good diet is better.
 
#7
What you fuel yourself with is important, but remember that if you want to put the youth in their paces (and let's face it, you're not in this business to just keep up.)

Follow the link below to have a look at some articles for strength training. Admittedly it's for over 40s but that just means that you have a head start.

Bodybuilding.com - Strength Training Success For A Middle Aged Guy! - Brian Konzelman

If Fauja Singh can run a marathon in 5 hours 40 minutes aged 92 then you should still be in the running.

 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#8
'most of caffeine's cardiovascular effects appear to be the result of adenosine blockade. Adenosine is a vasodilator, and any compound that blocks adenosine will increase vascular tone and raise blood pressure'
...'The action on adenosine are not confined to inducing vasodilation. Adenosine also prevents the central release of some neurotransmitters including dopamine and nor-epinephrine (Fredholm 1995). Some suggest that the alertness and energy experienced by coffee drinkers are the result of the ability of caffeine to block endogenous adenosine which in turn, allow the additional release of some neurotransmitters (Fredholm et al 1999) Surprisongly a connection between coffee consumption and Parkinsons disease seems to exist: higher caffeine consumption is associated with a lower risk of developing parkinsons ( Ross et al 200a,b)
Caffeine is essentially 100% bioavailable and it's peak concentrations occur 30-45 mins after oral ingestion (Massey (1998)
A 250mg dose of caffeine appros. 2.5 cups is enough to reduce cerebral blood flow for 90 minutes.
Caffeine, regardless of the source, acutely raises blood pressure in naive individuals, but only for a short time and not to a great degree (Cameron et al 1990) In the case of individuals who consume caffeine on a regular basis, results are difficult to predict because tolerance to the effects of caffeine is quickly acquired and lost, probably within 24 hours from the time the drug is last taken (James 1997)
A very large intake by individuals with coronary heart disease substantially increases the risk for sudden cardiac death ) de Vreede-Swagemakers et al 1999)

In one controlled study, elite marathon runners given 9mg/kg of caffeine before testing were able to increase their time on a treadmill by an average of 70% (Graham and Spriet 1991) This improvement was achieved without toxicity and without exceeding the requirement of the IOC that testing reveal no more than 12 Ug/ml of caffeine....'
... Very similar results were obtained by Kovacs et al (1998) .....



The above from Karch's pathology of drug abuse, some of the references are old and there may be more up to date stuff and of course check with your GP and don't hold me responsible and don't sue me etc. etc.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#10
Marathon runners have been using caffeine since at least the early 80s:

Marathon & Beyond -- The web site for marathoners and ultrarunners.

Nt sure if it's much help at shorter distances, other than perking you up a bit.
hmm well muslims have been using it since at least 1511 but it was to keep them up when they were praying all night. It's thought it came after it was noticed that when goats ate a certain bean they didn't sleep all night. The muslims tried it and there you have 'Kahweh'
 
#11
hmm well muslims have been using it since at least 1511 but it was to keep them up when they were praying all night. It's thought it came after it was noticed that when goats ate a certain bean they didn't sleep all night. The muslims tried it and there you have 'Kahweh'
Teshekur edirim, sekerli.
 
#13
1. You are not too old.
2. You need to run more than 3 x a week to improve, 4-6 is much better
3. Mix up the runs - some intervals, some tempo, some long runs, sometimes do what you feel like.
4. Caffeine works well for some, less for others - Personally I benefit from the caffeine kick.
5. Creatine is not going to help your running unless you only do 100m sprints.
6. Watching the youngsters laugh at Grandad as he laces up his trainers - and then watching their faces as you leave them eating your dust is a guilty pleasure that you should not deny yourself so go for it.
 
#15
1. You are not too old. Oh good.
2. You need to run more than 3 x a week to improve, 4-6 is much better Okay, but I need to fit a gym session in as well
3. Mix up the runs - some intervals, some tempo, some long runs, sometimes do what you feel like. Good point, I usually do an average run at an average pace
4. Caffeine works well for some, less for others - Personally I benefit from the caffeine kick. How do you take it ?
5. Creatine is not going to help your running unless you only do 100m sprints. Ok so I guess I need to be looking at improving endurance performance
6. Watching the youngsters laugh at Grandad as he laces up his trainers - and then watching their faces as you leave them eating your dust is a guilty pleasure that you should not deny yourself so go for it.

Good points there bulldoze
 
#16
nothing can beat a good diet, but i know when i've reached a 'plateau' in my training a bit of a mental and physical boost can make a big difference, used to be that pre-workout supps were just a huge caffeine/simple carb hit that didn't do anyone any favours. there's some new products out there now that seem better engineered to increase performance, i tried grenade fat burners, which are a metabolism booster for burning fat / pre-workout supplement for a bit of a boost. i've used them for weight training and playing in my 5-a-side league and its good stuff, nothing extreme and doesnt leave you in a coma when the buzz is over and i looked on the back its all natural ingredients, green tea, caffeine, pepper etc so no dramas come CDT time...
 

Notepad

Clanker
Kit Reviewer
#17
Right if you want something to keep your energy up and keep you with the young ones during medium to long runs (or before shorter ones), I would strongly consider taking a high 5 energy drink, in particular this one. If you look at the ingredients of it, it offers 2 parts complex to 1 part simple carbs, meaning you get a quick release boost, supported by a slower release one. I've found this has benefit me massively in the past, and for you it should make a considerable difference, helping you keep up with the younger guys. You should use it both while training (in a camelback), and when you need to perform. The only 2 problems I have found from personal experience are: 1) It may take away the desire to eat which can cause problems if you doing long endurance events 2) If you mix it to the ratio recommended it will not really hydrate you and so you will have to take on extra water - combat this by taking it at half the recommended dose.

I've met guys, and have at times myself, used the 4:1 high 5 stuff (4 parts carbs to 1 part protein), but don't rate it as much due to problems with feeling sick. Either way if you use these drinks and train with both long slow runs, and short intervals, you should be able to maintain a good fitness.
 
#18
bulldoze is correct, creatine is only effective for short intense bursts ie short sprints and low reps when using weights, it also allows muscle to retain more fluid to create a bulk effect. Creatine also enhances your recovery speed by increasing protein synthesis. It could help in your case because as you will know the older you get, the more time it takes to recover.
 
#19
Just to add, if you do go down the creatine route you will have to consume about 10-12 glasses of water a day for maximum fluid retention, also the creatine should be consumed post workout.
 
#20
I don't think caffienne has any "performance enhancing attributes" of the sort you require

I'm an oldy (37) and broken down, but crack daily phys. Normally an hour of CV and strength stuff 3-4 times a week

I'm in a very controlled environment food wise and routine and no booze so see myself as a bit of an experiment

I scoff codliver oil and Glucosamine for my general creaky state.

I've just recently been scoffing holland and barret creatine capsules....They don't half work in terms of getting more power out in strength exercises and I'm convinced they are upping my performance considerably in the CV region

While I'm not convince creatine is the magic wand of exercise I'm certain it has allowed me to step up my training performance and inprove my allround capabilities

Plus you do get a right old pump on the muscles, I'm like the incredible ******* hulk...ish

However Anecdote doesn't =Evidence.

So bob down to holland and barret and give it a go, whats the worst that could happen...your kidneys fail and you pish blood :)
 
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