Cadet Officers

#1
A query; Does anyone know if real soldiers have to call cadet youth officers (not adults) 'sir' and salute? I've asked one of the under-officers in my unit, and got told that they are required to (mind you he is an A1 cnut). What do you lot think? Would you call a cadet youth officer 'sir'?
 
#2
Call them Akela and be done with it. Mind and add Mr if Akela is a subby.
 
#4
Firstly, define what the **** is a cadet youth officer?

If you mean a Cadet Under Officer in the ACF or CCF, cadets junior to him might call him Sir. An AI, even a PI and an adult, therefore responsible for said cadet's welfare should not.

I would call him by his Surname, Mr Smith or simply 'Under Officer - Brew - Nato standard - GO!' remembering to do so clearly, loudly, as an order, and with pauses...
 
#5
But if he serves as an under officer for 22 years, does he get a Field Marshals pension?
 
#6
..............Which 'Real Soldiers' are you on about.

Teeth Arms are permitted to call cadet offrs.....Oi You.....****....Yes you, you horrible little Fat Knacker!

REMF's, which includes, clerks, pay staff, slop jockey's, grease monkey's, musicians, bottle washers, tour dodgers & the Sick, Lame & Lazy.........Have to Salute & call All Cadets 'Sir'
 
#7
Ask yourself... Does he/she hold the queens commission, no matter how long they did at RMAS if indeed they went.


Oh and BTW use the fricking search function as its been asked before
 
#9
ACF officers hold a TA type B commission. They do go through a selection process but go nowhere near Sandhurst. Under officers are not officers. They are awaiting their type B commission to be gazzetted and still hold their pre commisssioning rank, although in some ACF units they appoint under officers just to get them in the ACF officers mess and never go to commissioning board. Most Cadet Force Adult Volunteers see appointing as an under officer as a demotion.
 
#10
1. You only salute the holder of a commission. UOs are not commissioned, so that's easy. No-one should be saluting a UO -- whether they're regular, TA or cadet. If any UO is suggesting otherwise, one of the AIs needs to have a word in his shell-like.

2. Courtesy would dictate that regular or TA personnel address a Cdt UO as "Mr Smith" but that's all it is -- courtesy. You won't find any rules and regulations on it.

It might be helpful if you were to tell us why you want to know ;-)
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Short answer: no
Long answer: certainly not
Very long answer: if working with the cadets on something it would be polite but not obligatory to do so in front of the junior cadets as it helps maintain the "authority and mystique" of the cadet officers. It is obligatory and good for their education to tell them to **** off if they insist on it in the bar afterwards
 
#12
Neither are saluted. I don't see any need for HM Forces personnel to call them Sir.

A 'Cadet Under Officer' and an 'Adult Under Officer' are two different things. The Cadet's rank slide has the word CADET in red above the white stripe. The Adult one has ACF in black or bronze under the white stripe.

The main difference is that the former is a cadet and responsible for nothing but the Adult UO is a paid, contracted AI, CRB checked and responsible for nearly everything.

Neither have any form of commission. Both have a role in leading cadets, but those cadets are not obliged to obey by any law or regulation.

Neither can legally command anyone in HM Forces*.

Both should be given some courtesy, because the adult volunteer isn't in it for the money or the kudos, but for his community and the cadet isn't raping bus stops and joy riding stolen grannies

*Unless there is child protection issue or cadet force regulation at stake. But in such circs, even an AI should intervene and assert authority
 
#13
1. You only salute the holder of a commission. UOs are not commissioned, so that's easy. No-one should be saluting a UO -- whether they're regular, TA or cadet. If any UO is suggesting otherwise, one of the AIs needs to have a word in his shell-like.

2. Courtesy would dictate that regular or TA personnel address a Cdt UO as "Mr Smith" but that's all it is -- courtesy. You won't find any rules and regulations on it.

It might be helpful if you were to tell us why you want to know ;-)
Why does he ask this rather than search for it, simply to start another ACF bashing forum would be my guess ;)
 
#14
Unfortuantly they hold a TA type/class B commision, so yes, you SHOULD address them as real officers.

In reality, call them what you want. Whenever there are cadet officers around our barracks I just pretend I dont see them. If they come into work I call them mate/fella/chap just to see their faces get red.

If this isnt a wind up, use the SEARCH function.
 
#15
I'm sure that what the OP really wants to know is, should you salute other organisations who wear "pips" like rank. Such as the RSPCA? Paramedics?, Fire brigade?, Police?
 
#17
Ask yourself... Does he/she hold the queens commission, no matter how long they did at RMAS if indeed they went.
Naval midshipmen are saluted regardless of whether they hold a commission. I don't think the "saluting the commission" thing applies in the Navy as I was instructed to salute all manner of non-commissioned things including pissed cocktail party guests and coffins (but only if they contained a body).

I don't think there's really a Midshipman equivalent in the other services. AFAIK trainee officers at Sandhurst are all cadets regardless of their education or even previous TA/OTC commissions held. Royal Marine trainee officers are commissioned as a 2nd Lt on day 1 at Lympstone. Not sure about the Crabs.

Midshipmen are somehow officers and not officers at the same time.
 
#18
Unfortuantly they hold a TA type/class B commision, so yes, you SHOULD address them as real officers.
Here's a tip: Try reading the OP question.
Does anyone know if real soldiers have to call cadet youth officers (not adults) 'sir' and salute?
He is talking about Cadet Under Officers, not Adult Under Officers



In reality, call them what you want. Whenever there are cadet officers around our barracks I just pretend I dont see them. If they come into work I call them mate/fella/chap just to see their faces get red.
I'll bet you don't, since you cant read the OPs post properly, I think it unlikely you'd see the letters ACF on a DPM rank slide either. I know some ACF Officers who might get red-faced about it, but I know others who would AGAI you just for fun.
 
#19
Naval midshipmen are saluted regardless of whether they hold a commission. I don't think the "saluting the commission" thing applies in the Navy as I was instructed to salute all manner of non-commissioned things including pissed cocktail party guests and coffins (but only if they contained a body).

I don't think there's really a Midshipman equivalent in the other services. AFAIK trainee officers at Sandhurst are all cadets regardless of their education or even previous TA/OTC commissions held. Royal Marine trainee officers are commissioned as a 2nd Lt on day 1 at Lympstone. Not sure about the Crabs.

Midshipmen are somehow officers and not officers at the same time.
Pretty much how I understand it. I was taught to salute the forward mast thingy if stepping on board any of her majesty's ships or did I imagine that due to excess gin intake at an Admiralty party?

RAF, I think, are commissioned from day 1 too like the booties
 
#20
Pretty much how I understand it. I was taught to salute the forward mast thingy if stepping on board any of her majesty's ships or did I imagine that due to excess gin intake at an Admiralty party?

RAF, I think, are commissioned from day 1 too like the booties
I think that the Americans do the mast saluting thing. Just salute as you're stepping aboard in uniform or brace up if in civvies.

Strangely enough, RN warships do hold commissions and the crews are required to salute one another depending on the relative rank and seniority of the COs. A CO of mine had this fact reinforced when he assumed that black dot on the horizon couldn't be a warship as it was black instead of grey. At the time, the shiny black Royal Yacht was the only ship in the navy to be commanded by a Rear Admiral, making it senior to every other ship in the fleet.

First time I boarded a warship as an officer and a gentleman I was 17 and had been serving for less than a week. I jammed my status symbol officer's cap on my head and performed a spectacular, palm out army salute as I boarded.

To make matters worse, our uniform "foulie" jackets hadn't turned up and we had been instructed to wear civvy coats to stave off hypothermia. My long, green, fur trimmed Parka made me look like an extra off Quadraphenia and I couldn't help but notice the admiring glances from my junior rating subordinates who were waiting to honour me with salutes on the flight deck. In fact, they seemed to be following me around just to get a look at me. I knew then that I was destined for greatness.
 
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