Cadet commissions Vs TA Commissions

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by Cavalier, Jul 27, 2006.

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  1. Apologies if this has been covered before but I've got limited access to the site at work so can't trawl if it's been done.

    What's the coup with cadet Officer's? (i.e. instructors holding the rank of 2 Lt and above)?

    Is a 2 Lt the equivalent of a TA 2 Lt? Am I required to flip a cadet Officer the finger (sorry, I mean salute!) and call him/her Sir? And which is the lowest rank that this applies to? Do cadet Officer's still have to attend RCB and Sandbags?

    I've heard so many conflicting answers on this, even from within my own Unit so I thought I'd throw it open to the floor.
  2. DPM

    DPM Old-Salt

    Not sure that CCF Officers attend RMAS - in fact, I think that they are the only Officer's that don't (what with LEOC, PQO's and TA Commissioning Courses all now running).

    Ref saluting, it's the rank, not the man, so to speak.

  3. DPM: it's the Queens Commission which is flipped?? So if someone doesn't attend a commissioning, are they just given it?? Therefore a little hollow? No offence intended, just trying to settle a discussion with a bod at work.
  4. Cadet Officers do not hold the Queens Commission. They are not trained as army officers and cannot perform that function. You could refuse to salute them, but that would just be rude. You show they respect for who they are and what they do, not because of the rank.
  5. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Officers of the ACF and CCF do hold a Queen's commission if you are junior in rank to them and do not salute them you are failing in your military duty and are obviously not a very good soldier.

    As to the specific of the question does an ACF 2Lt salute a TA 2Lt? No becasue 2Lts need not salute each other, but the TA officer is senior to the ACF officer just as a Regular officer has seniority over a TA officer of the same rank.

    A Regular or TA Lt would definately salute an ACF A/Major.

    I don't know why saluting is such an issue for some people. As a soldier/NCO we were positivly encoraged to seek the b'stards out and throw up as many as possible to make thier lives a misery.

    Now I find that soldiers often look furtivly the other way and slink off to avoid saluting as if it is somehow shamefull or demeaning.
  6. As I am currently holding both commissions this is an interesting question. Given the debate in causes I think I am justified in only wearing my non-ccf rank. I was given my CCF rank on basis of what I had earned elsewhere, however, people do not know this. I think this may be verging on Walting, though my unit prefer me to wear my proper uniform, rank and head dress, though my CCF boss (RN) isn't terribly happy about it. However, if he was more polite about the TA I could consider giving a feck.
  7. So the scroll with my late father's name on it which begins "To our Trusty and Wellbeloved... " or something like that, and signed by HM the Q, is not real then?

    Not to mention the one I had whilst wearing a blue suit for a while?

    Mind you, on the reverse, it does say something like "Territorial Forces, List B".

    I used to love correcting RAF VR(T) officers who reckoned that ACF Commissions weren't "real"!

  8. Simply put, bollox

    I hold both a TA 'A' (general list) and TA'B' (ACF) Commission and I can guarantee you both commissioning scrolls are identical. Both are from the Queen. If you cannot understand basic military etiquette (ie salute the rank, not the man) then Lord help us!
  9. Yeah, me too. There's nothing like the look of pure misery as they throw up yet another half-salute in reply to his 200th of the day.

    I dont why people are getting all funny about the fact that a commision is a commision.

  10. So you're the sod who keeps giving me tennis elbow from all the salutes!! :D
  11. I as offered a Commission in the ACF, however, once they found out I was a LCpl in the TA, I wasn't allowed to go through with it.
  12. That seems very sh1t. Who wouldn't allow you and why? Your CO would have to ok it but I don't see why the ACF would object. Had you passed TCB or whatever the ACF equivalent is?
  13. Having just read the new Regulations on this one - you are 100% correct.
  14. This ACF versus CCF versus TA commissions is just so much bullsh1t. I would be surprised if anyone who has posted a "why should I salute x" themed post has actually risen above the rank of 2Lt. I should also guess that if you maintain this attitude the prognosis for that promotion is not good either!

    Look here. If someone gives up their time to be an AI or officer in the Cadet forces then fair fecking play to them. No, they are not the DSF but then again very few people are! They do the job, carry the rank and are entitled, nay regulated for, the respect they deserve. There are, shocking though it may seem, some absolute throbbers out there holding HM's commission. Some of them at field rank. Some of them regulars.

    So if it has to be couched in these terms, you salute officers of whatever persuasion of senior grade in rank. It is in the big red book. Ask your Adj. if you don't believe me but don't tell him why, because if he is half way sensible he will drop said heavy, big, red book on your foot.

    This resistance to saluting ("paying compliments") is not just apparent in this debate. I have seen regular soldiers in recent years do anything, just short of cutting their arms off, to avoid saluting even their own officers. Two RMs once walked past me and were quite obviously refusing to salute a "hat" or Army officer. At the last possible moment one of them saw my dagger and threw one up but if I hadn't been wearing it then I would have been ignored. They would have been bollocked.

    It isn't an ego thing, it is an issue of discipline, esprit de corps and respect. JNCOs need to grip it, because if they let the rot set in, being a lance-jack may become even less appealing then it already is!! Grip yourselves if you are even tempted to look at this issue in the style of the late but unlamented wo1slashedpeak or milkandcheese. Grip yiour colleagues too.
  15. Just because you salute them dosen't mean you respect them :D .Just stops a potentiol bollocking imho. And how small and petty will you look in front of cadets ?