C4 US Marines 27-01-05

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by johnojohnson, Jan 27, 2005.

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  1. Sorry, I don't like US marines much (personal opinion only) but C4 has a program on tonight reviewing the US General public (nobbers) and the families of the bog standard US soldiers.

    The 2 most fundermental things that come across are

    1 the military families that have members (male/female) in the sand pit don't give a flying SH 1 T who rules the country but how their own children are dealing with the situation. This is a front line view of their feelings.

    In this country we do not have the balls to do such a thing publically. Not only does this program talk through the familial trauma but also the economic expectations.

    I would like to see such an up-front confontation between those families that have lost children and those that have them in the sand pit and for our glorious bleeder to respond up front, no intermediaries, no spin JUST STAND THERE AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. Irrispective of what nation lost people noone except the USA have the gumption to ask why.

    This site has promoted the idea that YOU NEED TO VOTE to change things, this should also the site that promotes openess in those that sent us there in the first place.

    If you didn't see it, I'll look for the link or actual program on the net.

    Those in the pit need to know that others support THEM and not this stinking government.
     
  2. A bit redundant, arent you?

    So, why don't you like Marines? Did one beat you up or just poke momma in the dirty place? :wink:

    On a serious note, please post a link if you can find one, I'd be interested in what they have to say.
     
  3. Sorry corperal.

    Marines are fine, a bit Gung Ho, a bit much when I'm sober, great fun when I'm pished. But my point is that their families are more open about their opinions and feelings and to be honest I wish our own families had the honesty to stand up to our own soon to be congress as our honoured counterparts are.

    No dissing meant. Between forces a joke is a joke, when the bullets fly we are all in the same sh 1 t

    Johno

    (we beat the US Marine as both "American Football and English Rugby) Detmold 1979)
     
  4. The only thing I see on C4 is Fahrenheit 9/11 and this is almost a year old. For the people in the sandpit, were they conscripted? Correct me if I am wrong but each and every one one of them took the Queens shilling and as far as I am concerned no matter what the problem with the situation, no matter what the politics of it are, they are there because they are British Forces sent by the British Government!!
     
  5. Again sorry, but I hadn't seen the original program some 3 years ago.

    Granted WE as UK servicemen and women are willing volunteers for the armed forces this, does not mean that our siblings or parents (if alive) should not express their disaproval or dispair when a family member is sent into a combat zone without justification.

    If I were to lose a brother or siter for no apparent reason then fcuk it I would stand up and ask why. Are you willing to do this even if it means talking to the "house commons or congress as it will be known)

    johno
     
  6. Re: Fahrenheit 9/11. Watched it tonight (this morning here). Very interesting. Now I know that Moore designed it to be a propaganda machine to upset the latest Bush re election campaign and it is more than likely full of mis-quoted and cleverly edited material to prove his point but he did make some valid points (that are actually factually based, I spent the time cross referencing most) regarding the Bush family and a certain Middle Eastern Sovereign state (amongst other things). As always, I'm unbiased and have actually collated some facts through various means.

    A couple/few/several questions to the US members of this site.

    Bush is not 'the fastest car in the garage', why *elect, *re elect someone who is not exactly a Yale/Harvard graduate to rule you? Did you have a choice or was it 'fortold'?

    The facts concerning the Bush’s family involvement with a certain Middle Eastern country, its financial holdings and connections to your country and why you turn a blind eye towards it being a founding and influential 'non Christian state'? (Trying to be as non racial as I can but I'm sure you will know what I mean). This is still a state that beheads, in public certain 'non believers and persons who are against its way of thinking'. If they decided to behead a US subject, would the US consider them to be an 'axis of evil'?

    Why do you blindly follow/support a regime that is about to commit at least $80bn for the next year at least towards a campaign that you were told would be 'Shock and Awe' and be a 'Short, Quick resolution'? (Tell us where you think the deficit will come from?)

    You allow a regime that told you categorically that Saddam had WMD and was willing to freely use them and you still trust that administration. History has told you otherwise. (Yes, that history was here in the UK but with the resources at your disposal, you make the 324 Federal Agencies seem like a bit of a waste of money when it comes to the crunch, trim your resources? Hard pill to swallow that not everyone can be 'Special Forces').

    Post Sept 11/01, the Administration stirred the population into a frenzy of fright, suspicion and paranoia. Even though it had failed in its basic concept of protecting its own people through negligence? Facts still show that the US Int agencies had most of the facts to defeat the actual attack. (Conspiracy theories aside, its either gross negligence or withholding of info within the security agencies confirming that the system at the time was floored at least and disjointedly resentful of each other at best). An admittance that the administration had failed in some way? A way of keeping the populations attention? Defcon 1 thro 4 and 5 then back down to 1, recur as required? Resultant, population was reliant on its govn for help.

    A campaign by the Administration to provoke fear into its subjects by releasing 'Intel to further attacks' or 'horse bolts, close door after, tell the public we are on to it' scenario? The first instance is a propaganda campaign that may be akin to the NAZI party in and around 1933-34, the former is just a 'We fecked up action plan'. (Anti law suit - in no way am I suggesting the US is like the NAZI party (excluding South Carolina WS*** skinheads of course and those chaps that Louis Theroux interviewed. TOM METZGER is of course a good ole home boy).

    Do you know what GWB knew about the attacks prior to it happening? Unless you are CIA/Top Govn official/Al Qaeda/A certain Middle Eastern country then prob no. So, all the 'internet gurus', sheep, brain washed luddites who state that he didn’t, wind yer necks in. Proxy knowledge aint worth shoite. Aint in the White House, don’t tell me the real story, etc, etc.

    Do most of the population of the US really give two shoites to a far off country and how it is run? Does it affect their day to day life? Ask them three years ago and maybe most would have had an opinion that would have made them very concerned. They believed Saddam was on the verge of possibly turning their small town way of life into a marbled floor car park via a professed Nuke/WMD threat. Ask them now and I'll wager (with the facts they know to be true) they will not be terribly impressed. Taxes up, Defence spending up, standard of life down, Dollar in pocket worth a bag of Albanian Lek, sons/daughters packed in ice wearing a bag - body 1x. Basics. Is my life going to change? Initially, yes due to terror threat, due to Govn 'fear campaign'. Lately, no. Who’s going to pay for all this c r a p? Let them get on with it. Don’t want another Vietnam.

    Vietnam. That leads me to the next question. A history lesson. When the US decided to get involved, it was because of a just and valid cause? Communism was the evil axis of the day and was infecting lesser countries around the periphery of the central mainstay, CCCP/USSR. The US underestimated in a very big way, the feeling and commitment of the local populace and also the resources it had to hand. From what appeared to be a relatively easy campaign 'educating villagers and numptys' turned into a lack of credible int, shock towards what the govn of the day had led the voters to believe, large amounts of transport planes full of repatriated body bags, this achieved Govn phobia of admitting defeat caused in no small part to home land ill feeling to fighting a foreign and lost cause that actually turned out to have very little impact to how 'little Johnny' grew up (unless of course he received the draft). You cant blame Jane Fonda for everything you know!

    A candid and open question to the US members of this site.
    Do you believe your government regarding the threat still in Iraq and currently, the threat served by Iran/N Korea? Would you still agree to commit troops?

    Quote: G W Bush - I am a War President.

    That’s fine if one is forced to be a leader during war akin to Roosevelt or Churchill (BTW, both those proven leaders did actually do their bit during War, Teddy was as you will no doubt know, Assistant Secretary of the Navy during the Great War and Churchill was a God amongst men as a War time leader having seen off numerous fruit chucking nations in a previous life as a rodney). GWB has done nowt but prove the adage of 'War president' by declaring dubious aggressive acts towards
    1. Afghanistan - connections with OBL (US links to funding whilst attempting to overthrow USSR invasion, OBL still had a US bank roll pin number). I'm suprised his Pa didnt let him know? Maybe GWB snr does have a sense of hunour.
    2. Was it totally true that whilst GWB ordered attacks on Afghanistan, he was signing flights for OBLs family to fly out of the US? The very same family that GWB senior had very good financial links to and continued in his capacity as Exec advisor, represented his country post 9/11? It is a well known fact that GWB senior was involved in companies (oil/defence related) that had heavy interest from a certain Middle Eastern country. Did their assets get seized? Did they get questioned? Again, unless you are FBI/CIA/Govn you don’t know so wind your neck in. The facts of ledgers/tax returns sort of out ways the claims of 'bubba, patriot from Texas'.

    If the answer is yes. I believe you to be naive, narrow-minded and in some way as easily led as the German population circa 1933.

    If you answer No then I am surprised. As the old profiling goes. The types who post on here generally tend to be American patriots and ex servicemen. Their country is their life, regardless of who is in power. (A quality thrown over from a Sovereign country maybe?) Either they have a life time of seeing how a Govn are corrupt, negligent and selfish or they have lost tons of pals in a far off country for no real reason whatsoever. Did Vietnam make the US a better place? Did Somalia make the US a better place? Did the Balkans make the US a better place? Did liberating Kuwait make the US a better place?

    Believe me, Flashy aint some pinko lefty peacenik anti war fcukwit. Flashy is actually quite educated in some of the worlds better known arenas, T shirts etc.

    Govns have proved that they are only interested in their future (short term re election), money, and the power they can accumulate. For instance. US Pres earns $400k per annum, Daddies ME connections can net $160Bn for jnr. Clearly not that dumb if he thinks of his post White House life to be more important than the welfare of his state office/country/people. Michael Moore propaganda or a well known ignored fact?


    A bit of advice from one who has seen a bus queue full of pseudo leaders. (Thatcher, Major and Bliar) Never believe feck all that they tell you.


    They say the UK is always ten years behind the US in various trends but the way our current собака внапуска carries on, I feel he will close the gap some what.

    Next week on 'Flashy and his politico opinions and re education, Britain, an Empire, a Lap Dog, a third world fcuk piece - How a Nation falls from grace with no respect in eight years'. The nation attempts to speak out. But Bliar and his 'Clockwork Orange' cronies have learned from across the pond. Bludgeon through laws that are psuedo anti terrorist but are in fact population control measures in disguise. George Orwell would be getting wood over this.

    Will the US invade Saudi or Iran/Syria? Don’t worry, on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire', it’s the £100 question.


    *elect as in Gore -100% then miraculously failed to win
    **GWB learned at least some things to fecking over the population in a democratic leadership race. Republicanism is a disease that is infectious. Or how to re elect a politician without representation. Ask Leonid Brezhnev.
    ***White Supremacists.
     
  7. Well there you go Flash. You and Michael Moore must be right and 200 million Americans must be just plain dumb.
     
  8. You said it birdie. I didnt want to mention that. :wink:

    Facts is after all a dorty word. Thrown about by many, understood by few.

    If anything I have stated is proven to be incorrect or factually inaccurate, please let me know.
     
  9. :lol: Well Flash it's evident Mikey's efforts paid off with you.
     
  10. I'm keeping an open mind on this but like Flash said if anything he said is factually incorrect then spill the beans, I for one would like to hear the other side of the argument.
     
  11. RC, naa, I actually think 'Mikee' is a fat stereotypical sweaty McDonalds eating feckwit. Basically, he appears to me to be a cnut. I, on the other hand have the upper hand concerning a free and open opinion without a predetermined, blinkered or judgemental viewpoint.

    Do you know Lord Brockett?

    I'm a Brit therefore I have the power (at least for now) of free thinking, unbiased opinion and a knack of talking irrationally sensible shoite in a posh manner.

    The all calming middle/upper class accent gives me a god given authoritarian influence over my readers. Its known as the 'Hugh Grant' Visage in the US. (I do believe they think he is next in line to the throne). You know, Eddy the 8th has a lot to answer for having taken 'that' woman in.

    After calling GWB a shaved chimp, I merely need to mention Stonehenge was my Ancestral seat, Edinburg Castle was taken without consent and I Still own half of Trafalger Square and the chequered trousered Auslander mit baseball cap of the USS Lincoln will fall at my litoral feet.
     
  12. probably so.

    Did you see "King Ralph"?
     
  13. King Ralph? Yes, found it rather funny. Many members of my family tried to get 'cameos'. Your point? Satirical or a serious history lesson to the USA? Afterall, every four years you need to invent a figure to be proud of. We just have our beloved Lilybet, HM The Queen. 52 years of Monarchy..and from one woman. The Union Fag makes your rag look like a jay cloth.

    Let me tell you, I merely used F9/11 as a memory jogger as opposed to a mantra/way of life. Moore is a fat useless knacker with an agenda I feel uneasy with, hypocritical and pointless in the current scheme of things. My own opinion on the other hand is more akin to 'US people, see the light, don't be sheep. Stop being dictated to by a total and utter cnut. Disagree if you wish but your own economy will suffer in the long run'. $80bn aint chicken feed, even Gates would smart at that expenditure.
     
  14. Flashy said:
    Your grasp of matters is a little superficial. The East Asian situation after WW2 was higly complex. The communist threat that you so lightly dismiss was real and growing based not on USSR but on China and included not just Vietnam, but Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia. Indeed Malaysia did not accept the final surrender of Communist Insurgents until the late 1980's. With Japan out of the picture as the only pre war superpower to keep China in check the intervention of the US in Vietnam may have ended as a debacle for them but it certainly gave a number of the other SE countries time to sort there own acts out and deal with the problem. Funny thing. You will never hear anyone from Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Borneo or even Indonesia complain about the US involvement in Vietnam.

    Here's a question for you Flash. Was Britains involvement in the Mayal Emergency and the Indonesian Confrontation a good thing or a bad thing? Different scale but same issues.

    You challenge people to produce evidence against Michael Moore however this is shallow thinking to. Perhaps if Michael Moore produced proper, real evidence instead of alluding to conspiracy theories and dramatising half truths then there may be a case. You suggest the Americans are becoming German like in their following of Bush however it is people like yourselves that are all too ready to jump at shadows and fall in with the conspiracy.

    I know. My serious response will now be richly rewarded with the blagging I deserve.