Bye bye Invincible

Demise of Invincible

  • Barking mad, cost-cutting stupidity

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A network-enabled future capability rebalancing blah blah

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
A short-sighted scrabble for money by a bankrupt MoD or a farsighter reallocation of funds for the future?

Will this encourage the Argies?
 
#2
Any links?

But assuming their selling HMS Invincible.

She is getting old, she saw action in the Falklands didn't she?

Although what they'll replace her with is anyones guess.
 

Zofo

Old-Salt
#4
John Nott wanted to sell Invincible back in '82 so her leaving us cannot be that much of a bad move, even with upgrades and so on. What's the replacement?
 
#5
Well since sea harrier being sold off to be next rich mans toy .And our persent enemy is either running on to tube with an exploding
bergan (not the badly packed one) or sulking in afganistian or down town basra witha rpg or ied .The invincible is surplus to requirments
its being packed into extended storage .
 
#6
What's the replacement?
That's the catch - there isn't one until the latter half of the next decade...at the earliest.

"Capability gap" is obviously missing from the MoD dictionary, as is "overstretch".
 
#7
Sad indeed to see the first of the CVS go, especially Invincible which contributed so much to the Falklands War.

Although I don't think we need fear the Argentine capability given that their military has largely stood still since 82, I do have a great deal of misgivings regarding the loss of the RN AMRAAM (and therefore Sea Harrier) capability. Although national policy is that we won't go to war without US or European support, we said that in 82.

Likewise, everyone is extremely keen to keep saying 'there is no air threat now'. However, it was only 6 years ago that NATO fighters were busy shooting down 6 MIG-29s (and came very close to a couple of others and a few MIG-21s and Oraos) during Allied Force.

Given that the Russians and Chinese are trying to sell as many Flanker and J-10 fighters and AA-12 and PL-12 missiles as possible (to say nothing of French efforts with Mirage 2000-6, Rafale and Mica) claiming that there'll not be an air-air threat for the next 10+ years whilst we wait for JCA and CVF is a VERY big gamble IMHO.

I would not like to come up against this in only a Harrier GR9 with an ASRAAM!

Regards,
MM
 
#8
Looks like the chinesse Rip of a Saab crossed with Typhoon.

Of course the chinesse would never copy some one elses work would they?
 
#9
The new carriers are supposed to enter the fleet in 2012. That's only 7 year's away. Argentina will surely have given up trying to regain the Falklands by force ? Of course if no carrier's are available to respond to an invasion...........
 
#10
but instead of a handful of marines the falklands has slightly better defences this time + plus guard ship and possibly submarine
so very little chance .As the argie navy had a lot of rolls royce powered ships which they cant get spare parts for its not happening.
Unless they come by canoe if they have blokes who can canoe 300 miles through the south atlantic then we are screwed :)
 
#11
theres 4 tornado F4 s down there which might not be much in the dog fighting stakes but lobbing missiles in the general direction of argentina and getting the elctronics to do the rest is well within the capability of the white sock wearers as long as it not

a raining
b something good on TV
c clound in the sky
d some other excuse if the first 3 don't apply
although I belive if theres a chance to get all warry they show a bit more intrest :twisted:
 
#12
If they knew they were going to decomission her this year then why was £84 million spent on re-fitting her in 2001?! seems a bit mad to me!
But she has been around since 1977 so i spose the old dear is gettin on a bit!
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#13
MrPVRd said:
What's the replacement?
That's the catch - there isn't one until the latter half of the next decade...at the earliest.

"Capability gap" is obviously missing from the MoD dictionary, as is "overstretch".
More like "Credability gap". How are we going to conduct expeditonary warfare without flat tops? I suppose at a push we could use Ocean and her sister ships but surely they'll be full of 3 Commando Bde to squeeze the GR7's aboard.

The silence over the running down of the Navy is scandalous
 
#14
tomahawk6 said:
The new carriers are supposed to enter the fleet in 2012. That's only 7 year's away. Argentina will surely have given up trying to regain the Falklands by force ? Of course if no carrier's are available to respond to an invasion...........
According to "Fingerprints of the Gods" Author, Graham Hancock the World is due for the next Catastrophe i.e. on the same scale that instantly wiped out the dinosaurs! on 23rd December, 2012 so seems quite pointless to waste money on an Aircraft Carrier in 2012, we won't be getting much value for money!
 
#15
RedMistUK said:
tomahawk6 said:
The new carriers are supposed to enter the fleet in 2012. That's only 7 year's away. Argentina will surely have given up trying to regain the Falklands by force ? Of course if no carrier's are available to respond to an invasion...........
According to "Fingerprints of the Gods" Author, Graham Hancock the World is due for the next Catastrophe i.e. on the same scale that instantly wiped out the dinosaurs! on 23rd December, 2012 so seems quite pointless to waste money on an Aircraft Carrier in 2012, we won't be getting much value for money!
But at least we'll be saving on Christmas presents.
 
#16
Awol said:
RedMistUK said:
tomahawk6 said:
The new carriers are supposed to enter the fleet in 2012. That's only 7 year's away. Argentina will surely have given up trying to regain the Falklands by force ? Of course if no carrier's are available to respond to an invasion...........
According to "Fingerprints of the Gods" Author, Graham Hancock the World is due for the next Catastrophe i.e. on the same scale that instantly wiped out the dinosaurs! on 23rd December, 2012 so seems quite pointless to waste money on an Aircraft Carrier in 2012, we won't be getting much value for money!
But at least we'll be saving on Christmas presents.
Too Right!
 
#17
RedMistUK said:
According to "Fingerprints of the Gods" Author, Graham Hancock the World is due for the next Catastrophe i.e. on the same scale that instantly wiped out the dinosaurs! on 23rd December, 2012 so seems quite pointless to waste money on an Aircraft Carrier in 2012, we won't be getting much value for money!
Off track here but wasn't that Hancock quoting the Mayan calendar?
 
#18
Zofo said:
RedMistUK said:
According to "Fingerprints of the Gods" Author, Graham Hancock the World is due for the next Catastrophe i.e. on the same scale that instantly wiped out the dinosaurs! on 23rd December, 2012 so seems quite pointless to waste money on an Aircraft Carrier in 2012, we won't be getting much value for money!
Off track here but wasn't that Hancock quoting the Mayan calendar?
Yes it was and it had been very accurate in the past!!! scary!!!
 
#19
Stop getting all new age please, as it will only encourage wimmin (you know who you are) to post and some f*cker will start advertising crystal healing and tarot readings for pets on here.
 
#20
Listy,
The J-10's lineage is actually Israeli (look closely and you can tell from the cut off jet exhaust!). Basically, it's an updated version of the IAI Lavi fighter which the Israelis were forced (via US political pressure) to scrap in the late 80s. The Israelis have been closely associated with the Chinese for many years with modern AAMs, a very nice IL-76 E-Scan AWACS and the J-10 only the most obvious of results.

Tomahawk,
I suggest you'd be a brave man to bet on CVF being delivered on time by 2012. It may be floating then but I bet it'll be far from operational. However, even if it is, JCA is slipping to the right all the time and probably won't be FOC until 2015 at the earliest.

Brighton Hippy,
Even with only Skyflash and AIM-9L the F3s would not be too troubled by the Argentine air capability. And in it's current guise with AMRAAM, ASRAAM, JTIDS and a few other goodies the F3's lack of agility is far less of an issue, especially against 1960s Mirage IIIs, Daggers, SUEs and A-4s. Rapier FSC is also a significant deterrant down there; I just hope the RA don't try and run it down now they've taken over GBAD and claim HVM can do the job.

Fozzy,
Err...we do have flat tops - Illustrious and Ark Royal!! We also have Ocean (no sister ship) and the excellent new Bulwark Class LPDs albeit these are not really suitable for STOVL fighter ops. Losing one of the CVS isn't a major snag - losing a BVR air-air capability off them for 10 years may be. ASRAAM and JTIDS on the GR9 will considerably close the gap but AMRAAM (as opposed to the SHAR per se) will be a big loss.

Regards,
MM
 
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