By eck its cold!

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8101291.stm

It seems that the MOD will be paying compensation to people who got too cold.

I quote...

"Lawyers acting for the men say the MoD should have done more to protect them from the cold.

Solicitor Simon Harrington of McCool, Patterson, Hemsi - which is bringing more than 100 claims against the MOD - said the troops' injuries were "entirely avoidable".

"The kit was substandard, the training was substandard, and the supervision was substandard," he said

If liability is established in every case, lawyers estimate the MoD could end up paying out more than £5m."
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Well, the MOD us subject to the HRA, and guess what . . . . the human rights ambulance chasers are on the case.

On the other hand, if the MOD was properly funded, and issued decent kit . . . . .
 
#4
The MOD caused me to be:

too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry, too dirty, too tired, too hungry, too thirsty and too everything else over a period of thirty five plus years. Additionally my limbs are too broken, my ears too deafened, and my joints too knackered.

Where is this solicitor?
 
#5
It seems that the MoD have made adjustments and improvements to equipment and training to try to alleviate this situation.
The MoD just like everyone else is on a continual learning curve and need to be aware of the differing physiological characteristics of the different races. Transcultural medicine is a relatively new medical discipline and much more research is needed. All the MoD can do is learn, and learn quickly, from experience and adjust accordingly.
If I had become incapacitated by my service I think I would be very grateful that there is someone willing to fight my case, just look how long the atomic bomb witnesses have had to wait for some form of justice.
 
#6
Whilst we can mock, NFCI is pretty serious and can be quiet debilitating. It also leaves you unable to cope with further cold conditions (in some cases) and so can restrict your future deployment capabilities.

I have no knowledge of any of the claiments, but commonwealth soldiers are unlikely to have experienced the type of cold conditions we are used to, and so as part of the RA process this should have been considered when operating in such conditions. Telling someone to man the **** up when his feet have swollen to 4 times there normal size is possibly not the best way to deal with such issues.
 
#7
(Although this may incur the wrath of someone or another...) has anyone considered that Mr Scotts injury, that caused his fingernails to fall off, wasn't caused by one of the many HUNDREDS of parasitic infestations and infections that can be contracted in Nigeria. It seems a bit suspiscious that it only started when he went home.

And if its difficult to get treatment in Nigeria, its possible that the diagnoses are just as difficult to get correct.

If his hands were cold...why didn't he get himself a gucci pair of gloves?(either bought when not on op, or proffed when on :roll: )
 
#8
hexysmoker said:
(Although this may incur the wrath of someone or another...) has anyone considered that Mr Scotts injury, that caused his fingernails to fall off, wasn't caused by one of the many HUNDREDS of parasitic infestations and infections that can be contracted in Nigeria. It seems a bit suspiscious that it only started when he went home.

And if its difficult to get treatment in Nigeria, its possible that the diagnoses are just as difficult to get correct.

If his hands were cold...why didn't he get himself a gucci pair of gloves?(either bought when not on op, or proffed when on :roll: )
Anyone suffering with climatic injury resulting in hospital treatment is seen by specialists at INM (Institute of Navel Medicine). These people are experts in their field and his diagnosis would have come from them
 
#9
LMF imho

Having lived a fooking long time in sub-surface and rural OP's, cold and wet weather injuries are avoided by good drills, self-awareness and the buddy system

British soldiers ARE shown how to manage themselves in harsh conditions - and this appears to be another yet another level of political correctness / legal-claims policy, intent on distracting the armed forces from doing its real job of delivering SOLDIERS
 
#10
I get very hot in sandy places. I run the risk of heat injuries, dehydration and sunburn. I make every effort not to get a heat injury, dehydrated or sun burnt. I get very cold in Norway, Scotland, Otterburn or wherever, but I make every effort not to suffer any cold injuries. I've done countless river crossings where we've had to break the ice first. I have actually suffered from 'trench foot'. It is not nice and it is debililitating but it was partly down to me being idle.
If you listen to what you're told, use a bit of common sense then the chances of any long term damage is extremely rare.
It's the f*cking army! Man up!!
 
#11
righthandmarker said:
I get very hot in sandy places. I run the risk of heat injuries, dehydration and sunburn. I make every effort not to get a heat injury, dehydrated or sun burnt. I get very cold in Norway, Scotland, Otterburn or wherever, but I make every effort not to suffer any cold injuries. I've done countless river crossings where we've had to break the ice first. I have actually suffered from 'trench foot'. It is not nice and it is debililitating but it was partly down to me being idle.
If you listen to what you're told, use a bit of common sense then the chances of any long term damage is extremely rare.
It's the f*cking army! Man up!!
Isn't that how a certain SAS Major met his death?
 
#12
Love the irony of the solicitor's firm's name:

Solicitor Simon Harrington of McCool, Patterson, Hemsi - which is bringing more than 100 claims against the MOD - said the troops' injuries were "entirely avoidable".
 
#13
Markintime said:
righthandmarker said:
I get very hot in sandy places. I run the risk of heat injuries, dehydration and sunburn. I make every effort not to get a heat injury, dehydrated or sun burnt. I get very cold in Norway, Scotland, Otterburn or wherever, but I make every effort not to suffer any cold injuries. I've done countless river crossings where we've had to break the ice first. I have actually suffered from 'trench foot'. It is not nice and it is debililitating but it was partly down to me being idle.
If you listen to what you're told, use a bit of common sense then the chances of any long term damage is extremely rare.
It's the f*cking army! Man up!!
Isn't that how a certain SAS Major met his death?
There is a culture that now exists whereby anybody who experiences a bit of discomfort is a victim. Some people are only too happy to play the system with the help of parasitic law firms. Can't say i blame them if they're that way inclined because it's legal and easy for them to make a few quid (thanks to this government, but that's another issue). But why join the army in the first place?
And if you're talking about the Major i am thinking of then he made his own decision to do what he was doing. (If you are thinking of a different Major then i apologise).
 
#14
righthandmarker said:
There is a culture that now exists whereby anybody who experiences a bit of discomfort is a victim. Some people are only too happy to play the system with the help of parasitic law firms. Can't say i blame them if they're that way inclined because it's legal and easy for them to make a few quid (thanks to this government, but that's another issue). But why join the army in the first place?
And if you're talking about the Major i am thinking of then he made his own decision to do what he was doing. (If you are thinking of a different Major then i apologise).
That would depend on what is defined as discomfort. For example, in 2000 a number of paras sued the MOD because they contracted malaria in Sierra Leone - they were not supplied nets or anti-malarials? Would you class malaria as a bit of discomfort?
 
#15
Wrap up in a dozen layers and work so you sweat like a pig, then get into your doss bag in those layers and wonder why your sweat becomes cold. Then blame the army.

Also say you have a CWI that exempts you guard duty, morning parades/PT, exercises etc but doesn't stop you hanging around the outside of the block in shorts and t-shirt drinking until silly o'clock in the morning.
 
#16
stacker1 said:
Wrap up in a dozen layers and work so you sweat like a pig, then get into your doss bag in those layers and wonder why your sweat becomes cold. Then blame the army.
or blame the NCO's for not getting amongst their men and showing them how to do it properly. You really are a weak NCO arent you stacker
 
#17
righthandmarker said:
There is a culture that now exists whereby anybody who experiences a bit of discomfort is a victim. Some people are only too happy to play the system with the help of parasitic law firms. Can't say i blame them if they're that way inclined because it's legal and easy for them to make a few quid (thanks to this government, but that's another issue). But why join the army in the first place?
And if you're talking about the Major i am thinking of then he made his own decision to do what he was doing. (If you are thinking of a different Major then i apologise).
What I was talking about is that it's no good just saying stag on to someone who is experiencing such problems as they don't go away and you can't soldier through them. As a section sergeant I was responsible for the welfare of my men and I made it my job to ensure that the men were well fed and looked after without being mollycoddled. If someone is just whingeing for the sake of it, then yes, man up but if they have the beginnings of immersion foot or suchlike then they need to be treated.
As for the Major, he did make his own decision and was perhaps more in a position to do so than many. Had any DS been witness to his behaviour I believe they would have prevented him from carrying on by any means possible.
 
#18
drain_sniffer said:
righthandmarker said:
There is a culture that now exists whereby anybody who experiences a bit of discomfort is a victim. Some people are only too happy to play the system with the help of parasitic law firms. Can't say i blame them if they're that way inclined because it's legal and easy for them to make a few quid (thanks to this government, but that's another issue). But why join the army in the first place?
And if you're talking about the Major i am thinking of then he made his own decision to do what he was doing. (If you are thinking of a different Major then i apologise).
That would depend on what is defined as discomfort. For example, in 2000 a number of paras sued the MOD because they contracted malaria in Sierra Leone - they were not supplied nets or anti-malarials? Would you class malaria as a bit of discomfort?
No that is not discomfort they were not given the right equipment or indeed any- simple.

However in the case of Cold Exposure the guys were given gloves, norgies, gortex, gloves CS95 which are very good and socks etc.

What do we do then? Send the Commonwealth soldiers who come from a hot place form a regiment and send them to Afgan in the summer and the UK soldiers in the winter?

I agree it is simple admin.

edited for bad English and too much beer last night!
 
#19
drain_sniffer said:
stacker1 said:
Wrap up in a dozen layers and work so you sweat like a pig, then get into your doss bag in those layers and wonder why your sweat becomes cold. Then blame the army.
or blame the NCO's for not getting amongst their men and showing them how to do it properly. You really are a weak NCO arent you stacker
Thats right I'm their only NCO in the whole army and always will be, strange how some people seem to learn and some don't, generally the ones who don't are the ones who would rather lie there in the cold because they are to bone idle to look after themselves.
Still blame the NCO and you're onto a payday.
 
#20
Pantsoff said:
drain_sniffer said:
righthandmarker said:
There is a culture that now exists whereby anybody who experiences a bit of discomfort is a victim. Some people are only too happy to play the system with the help of parasitic law firms. Can't say i blame them if they're that way inclined because it's legal and easy for them to make a few quid (thanks to this government, but that's another issue). But why join the army in the first place?
And if you're talking about the Major i am thinking of then he made his own decision to do what he was doing. (If you are thinking of a different Major then i apologise).
That would depend on what is defined as discomfort. For example, in 2000 a number of paras sued the MOD because they contracted malaria in Sierra Leone - they were not supplied nets or anti-malarials? Would you class malaria as a bit of discomfort?
No that is not discomfort they were not given the right equipment or indeed any- simple.

However in the case of Cold Exposure the guys were given gloves, norgies, gortex, gloves CS95 which isare very good and socks etc.

What do we do then, is send the Commonwealth soldiers who come from a hot place form a regiment and send them to Afgan in the summer and the UK soldiers in the winter?

I agree it is simple admin.
Your right, it is simple admin. The point I am making, and have commented on the other thread on this is - When we deploy to extreem climates (both hot and cold) the emphasis is on dealing with those conditions. However, when we are in the UK we tend to forget the lessons learnt, and basic admin drills go out of the window. Why do I know this? Well, because we still see heat injuries in the UK when it gets a bit warm - we still see cold injuries in the UK when its normal conditions. The kit has improved significantly, so that can only mean that our soldiers are not considering climatic conditions in the UK as a problem. The reports suggest otherwise.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads