Butter knife is an "offensive wpn"

#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...utt14.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/04/14/ixhome.html

Butter knife 'an offensive weapon'
By Duncan Gardham
(Filed: 14/04/2005)

A butter knife can be an offensive weapon, the High Court ruled yesterday.

The decision came in the rejection of an appeal by Charlie Brooker, of Welling, Kent, who had been convicted under the Criminal Justice Act of carrying a bladed instrument.

Mark Hardie, appearing for Brooker, argued that the knife had no handle, sharp edges or points and therefore could not fall foul of a law intended to protect people from dangerous weapons.

But Lord Justice Laws, sitting with Mr Justice David Steel, disagreed. He said: "I would accept that a sharp or pointed blade was the paradigm case - however the words of the statute are unqualified and refer to any article that has a blade."
Words fail me :evil:
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#2
Ah but Stoatie, we're lacking some context here, like why he was carrying a butter knife in a public place. You've got to think that some chav from Welling has gone out equipped with a butter knife for some purpose, and my guess is the reasoning behind it was 'It's just a butter knife, the Rozzers can't nick me for this, tee hee hee...'
 
#3
in that case, surely anything can become an offensive weapon in the right hands! Maybe i should stop carrying a tooth pick around with me ?!!! :D
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Exactly, an offensive weapon is anything that is carried with intent. A rolled up newspaper was classified thus in the 1970s. Sounds silly but some of us can remeber "The Millwall Brick" which was a way of rolling a newspaper so that it formed a particularly effective cudgel. Very popular after stanley knives were banned at Millwall games.
 
#5
maninblack said:
but some of us can remeber "The Millwall Brick" which was a way of rolling a newspaper so that it formed a particularly effective cudgel.
Can you tell us how to make one of these? -Purely for academic interest of course.

msr
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
As far as I remember, roll up the paper (Tabloid, of course :) )lengthways - you have a tube around 16" long, and 1 1/2 " diameter.

Fold tube in half - takes some doing - hold both ends. Voila, virtually solid lump of offensiveness. AFter all, it started out as a lump of wood :D
 
#8
Unfortunately it then is clearly a newspaper that has been used as a "Millwall brick". Better method is to roll up the paper/magazine and then stub it against a wall. As long as it remains rolled up, it is compacted. Once unrolled it then becomes a slightly soiled newspaper again and less detectable. The brick you have to chuck but with my patent method (applied for!) you can stroll off and if some bar steward jumps you on your way to the extraction point or emergency RV, presto you are back in business in the proverbial heartbeat.

Use is as a stabbing, thrusting weapon rather than as a cudgel...or so I am informed by..erm..a bloke I met in a pub...yes that's it, a bloke in a pub.
 
#9
Is that where Matt Damon got the idea from? If I remember correctly he uses a rolled up magazine as a weapon very effectivley in the Bourne Supremacy.
 
#10
ANY item can be classed as an offensive weapon. It depends on the circumstances.

What explaination did this guy give for having the item, and what were the circumstances of its discovery by Police? These should be considered before we have the usual ill informed ARSSE moans about the law.
 
#11
Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits the possession in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed (including a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches). <Archbold, 24.125>
This is what he's been prosecuted under, NOT Sec. 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953:

Section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the possession in any public place of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or excuse. <Archbold 24-106a>

Definition of an offensive weapon <Archbold 24-115B>:

'Offensive weapon' is defined as any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use. The courts have been reluctant to find many weapons as falling within the first limb of the definition and reliance should usually be placed upon the second. On that basis it must be shown that the defendant intended to use the article for causing injury.
The court ruled that a butter knife fell within the meaning of the CJA, NOT that it was an offensive wpn under the PCA, hence no "intent" had to be proved.

Thus from the evidence presented in the article, he was prosecuted because the butter knife constituted an offensive wpn per se under Sec. 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
 
#13
Cuddles said:
Unfortunately it then is clearly a newspaper that has been used as a "Millwall brick". Better method is to roll up the paper/magazine and then stub it against a wall. As long as it remains rolled up, it is compacted. Once unrolled it then becomes a slightly soiled newspaper again and less detectable. The brick you have to chuck but with my patent method (applied for!) you can stroll off and if some bar steward jumps you on your way to the extraction point or emergency RV, presto you are back in business in the proverbial heartbeat.

Use is as a stabbing, thrusting weapon rather than as a cudgel...or so I am informed by..erm..a bloke I met in a pub...yes that's it, a bloke in a pub.
Even more handy, is a tightly rolled copy of "Private Eye" with a couple of rubber bands to keep it furled. It is more compact, and you're right, its used to jab at vulnerable areas ie: face, throat, temple,neck,arm-pit, solar-plexus, kidneys and groin. I must drink in the same pubs as you! :wink:
 
#14
cpt - but a "blade" is not necessarily sharp:

OED said:
6. a. The thin cutting part of an edged tool or weapon, as distinguished from the handle.
i.e. it only has to "cut". A butter knife can cut butter or cheese well enough, does not cut live human flesh very well at all.
 
#15
I applaud this insightful and carefully-considered judicial decision. There's no reason for any private citizen to possess any portable object that is, or can be rendered, sharp, hard, or heavy.

May I point out that butter itself should also be considered an offensive weapon if wielded with intent to cause coronary atherosclerosis, a lethal condition.
 
#16
Not_Whistlin_Dixie said:
I applaud this insightful and carefully-considered judicial decision. There's no reason for any private citizen to possess any portable object that is, or can be rendered, sharp, hard, or heavy.

May I point out that butter itself should also be considered an offensive weapon if wielded with intent to cause coronary atherosclerosis, a lethal condition.
"Did you know (attempts to impersonate Michael Caine) that pound for pound, butter contains more energy than PE4? not a lot of people know that!"
 
#17
If he had had some butter as well...that's a lethal weapon. If the health police find out about this sinister equipment...eeeh!
 
#18
Gonzo said:
Is that where Matt Damon got the idea from? If I remember correctly he uses a rolled up magazine as a weapon very effectivley in the Bourne Supremacy.
no, I have never met Matt Damon..Matt Dawson yes, but not the Bourne fellah... :D :D :D
 
#20
I'd use the thorns on a rose to poke your eyes out. Or maybe to slash your wrists and bleed you to death, if you don't answer your PMs quicker, you cnut. :D
 
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