"But youre not in the Army"

#1
Evening all.

Just had a very interesting chat with my colleagues (a fellow S02 and an S01) about my skulking off on Civil Service Flexi time and the like.

I used the "but you guys knock off early on a Friday and wander off to the Gym when you like" line as my defence.

This was responded to with the old "The Army say I must be fit, so they have to allocate time for me to go to the Gym".

I, in turn, responded with "but the Army say I must be fit, and yet provide no time for me to go the Gym".

"But you're not in the Army".

Don't get me wrong, the Major in question is a top bloke, but I thought that the Regular Army was past this sort of thing and at least acknowledged that the TA is part of the same organisation.

Any thoughts, or should I just knock off early and accept my lot as a second class citizen?

Edited to add: After re-reading this, it is badly phrased. Please read the rest of the thread before replying.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#2
StabTiffy2B said:
Evening all.

Just had a very interesting chat with my colleagues (a fellow S02 and an S01) about my skulking off on Civil Service Flexi time and the like.

I used the "but you guys knock off early on a Friday and wander off to the Gym when you like" line as my defence.

This was responded to with the old "The Army say I must be fit, so they have to allocate time for me to go to the Gym".

I, in turn, responded with "but the Army say I must be fit, and yet provide no time for me to go the Gym".

"But you're not in the Army".

Don't get me wrong, the Major in question is a top bloke, but I thought that the Regular Army was past this sort of thing and at least acknowledged that the TA is part of the same organisation.

Any thoughts, or should I just knock off early and accept my lot as a second class citizen?
Sorry Stabby, I didn't realise you were a Major. Or did you mean "an SO2, which my civvy job title is deemed by some to be comparable to"?

Just out of interest......
 
#3
Why not use the 'I am taking my flexi-time what's your problem' line ?

And he is also correct - had you signed in at the time?

msr
 
#5
Duke: I Don't really want to start down that track, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in that I'm still an S02 despite being a Civvy. We can discuss via PM if you'd prefer, or I can edit my post if it's a drama/I'm wrong.

MSR: Not quite sure what you're getting at. I wasn't actually off to the Gym. Rather I was raising the issue of the "You're not in the Army bit".
 
#6
Stab, you are a soldier, but you're not in the Army. You're in the Territorial Army.

Therefore, why should you get time off from your civilian occupation to go down the gym, when being fit will have no bearing on your effectiveness as a civil servant.

OK you get flexi-time which you can spend in anyway you choose, but you get that because of your civilian role, not because you are in the TA.
 
#7
How are your colleagues to know you are in the TA?

Do you have a picture of yourself on exercise on your desk?

The TA doesn't give you time to get fit. It is a personal responsibility.

Deal with it

msr
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#8
StabTiffy2B said:
Duke: I Don't really want to start down that track, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in that I'm still an S02 despite being a Civvy. We can discuss via PM if you'd prefer, or I can edit my post if it's a drama/I'm wrong.

MSR: Not quite sure what you're getting at. I wasn't actually off to the Gym. Rather I was raising the issue of the "You're not in the Army bit".
No Stabby, quite happy now that you have confirmed that it is civvy equivalent. I would hate for anyone to confuse your civvy skills and qualifications required to hold your civil service post with the selection, training and minimum 12 years military experience (as required by the current LSTOS) required to hold the Majority indicated by a military SO2 post.

Duke
 
#9
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to blag free time off for the Gym.

It was just the subject that we happened to be chatting about.

Duke: Upon checking the great book, it lists as OF3 rather than S02. I don't think there's any drama using either term, but if there is, please let me know.
 
#10
StabTiffy2B said:
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to blag free time off for the Gym.

It was just the subject that we happened to be chatting about.

Duke: Upon checking the great book, it lists as OF3 rather than S02. I don't think there's any drama using either term, but if there is, please let me know.
Well, your still not in the Army. It's the Territorial Army that requires you to be fit, not the Army.
 
#11
amazing__lobster said:
Well, your still not in the Army. It's the Territorial Army that requires you to be fit, not the Army.
Aha. This is my point. Isn't it all one big happy organisation now, with the same standards?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#12
StabTiffy2B said:
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to blag free time off for the Gym.

It was just the subject that we happened to be chatting about.

Duke: Upon checking the great book, it lists as OF3 rather than S02. I don't think there's any drama using either term, but if there is, please let me know.
I am sure that there is not a drama, but as an officer who has had to deal with lots of people claiming "officer status" and trying to use their civil service post in lieu of rank, it is always best to be clear.

I understand the need to have comparison for pecking order purposes but it could easily be misconstrued.
 
#13
The_Duke said:
I am sure that there is not a drama, but as an officer who has had to deal with lots of people claiming "officer status" and trying to use their civil service post in lieu of rank, it is always best to be clear.

I understand the need to have comparison for pecking order purposes but it could easily be misconstrued.
Fair enough. Wasn't my intention at all.
 
#14
Well, I'm ex, anyway. But as I see it, you're part of an organization that is tied to the big organisation.

Nothing wrong with being a TA soldier, in fact much kudos, but it's still not same.
 
M

Mr_Logic

Guest
#15
StabTiffy2B said:
amazing__lobster said:
Well, your still not in the Army. It's the Territorial Army that requires you to be fit, not the Army.
Aha. This is my point. Isn't it all one big happy organisation now, with the same standards?
If you are correct then you would be well within your rights to complain to your RAO that you are only being paid a few days a month. They should actually be paying you all the time, right? After all, if its all one Army, sorry, "one big happy organisation", with the same conditions for everyone, then I am sure he will see the error of his ways and pay you.

I suspect that his answer is more likely to be along the lines of "go away you soft tw@t!"

Do tell us how it goes in case we can't all hear the laughter from where we are.
 
#16
StabTiffy2B said:
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to blag free time off for the Gym.

It was just the subject that we happened to be chatting about.

Duke: Upon checking the great book, it lists as OF3 rather than S02. I don't think there's any drama using either term, but if there is, please let me know.
Not all Majors are SO2s. SO2 is an appointment not a rank. so you shouldn't be claiming to be an SO2, IMHO.

as for keeping fit on army time - how can you possibly keep fit on part time hours? go for a run on drill nights and interrupt weekend training to go to the gym? lots of TA soldiers are otherwise unemployed, so have all the free time in the world to keep fit. others are in high-powered jobs and have little free time. guess the answer is - if you can't keep up the commitment and keep fit in your own time, consider leaving the TA.

this old one about keeping fit in the regular army's time is one i agree with and thoroughly endorse. but there is nothing written down that i am aware of; it is down to your boss. i have worked for knobs who forbade time off for phys.

as an aside, what is your TA rank? why are you referring to your Civil Service equivalent rank / OF3 or whatever, when you are talking about army matters? if you are indeed a tiffy, or even lower (tiffy to be?) your "civil service equivalent rank" will probably just get you giggled at if you bring it up in relation to army matters.

you want to be treated the same as regular soldiers? use your army rank and don't allude to "fellow SO2s".
 
M

Mr_Logic

Guest
#17
I know a joke about this sort of thing.

A Sgt catches one of his lads returning from the barbers having had his haircut in work-time.

Sgt: "You can't get your haircut in work-time."

Pte: "But it grew in work-time!"

Sgt: "It didn't all grow in work-time."

Pte: "I didn't get it all cut!"

Mlar.
 
#18
Mr_Logic said:
I know a joke about this sort of thing.

A Sgt catches one of his lads returning from the barbers having had his haircut in work-time.

Sgt: "You can't get your haircut in work-time."

Pte: "But it grew in work-time!"

Sgt: "It didn't all grow in work-time."

Pte: "I didn't get it all cut!"

Mlar.
Classic, in fact more interesting than the actual thread topic!
 
#19
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
StabTiffy2B said:
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to blag free time off for the Gym.

It was just the subject that we happened to be chatting about.

Duke: Upon checking the great book, it lists as OF3 rather than S02. I don't think there's any drama using either term, but if there is, please let me know.
Not all Majors are SO2s. SO2 is an appointment not a rank. so you shouldn't be claiming to be an SO2, IMHO.

as for keeping fit on army time - how can you possibly keep fit on part time hours? go for a run on drill nights and interrupt weekend training to go to the gym? lots of TA soldiers are otherwise unemployed, so have all the free time in the world to keep fit. others are in high-powered jobs and have little free time. guess the answer is - if you can't keep up the commitment and keep fit in your own time, consider leaving the TA.

this old one about keeping fit in the regular army's time is one i agree with and thoroughly endorse. but there is nothing written down that i am aware of; it is down to your boss. i have worked for knobs who forbade time off for phys.

as an aside, what is your TA rank? why are you referring to your Civil Service equivalent rank / OF3 or whatever, when you are talking about army matters? if you are indeed a tiffy, or even lower (tiffy to be?) your "civil service equivalent rank" will probably just get you giggled at if you bring it up in relation to army matters.

you want to be treated the same as regular soldiers? use your army rank and don't allude to "fellow SO2s".
Right. Let me clarify again:

1) I don't want time off for doing Phys. It just happened to be the subject of the conversation.

2) I'm not trying to 'big myself up' by using a civvy grade as a military rank.

3) I aknowledge that my initial post was badly worded and did not focus on the topic I wished to discuss in this thread.

Therefore, what are people's (both Regular and TA) opinions on the phrase "but you're not in the army" when talking to a TA person?
 

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