Bush, religion and China

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Nov 20, 2005.

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  1. Incredible, did God tell him to do this too?

    Sorry to have a crack at your leader Cousins , but damn me

    This man is the President? How the hell did that happen? He travels halfway round the world to China , to criticise the Chinese governments lack of 'religous tolerance' in supporting a religion foisted on them by 19th Century missionairies?

    For comparison , I have precised two travel advisories from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

    One precis , is of course those dastardly god-damn Jesus hating commies

    The other belongs to a valued ally in T. W. A. T. , a friend of the US , and home of substantial US investments, including alleged investment ties with the Bush family.

    Can you guess which is which?



    China said

    Which is a typical overly formal Chinese way of saying "Ram it you cheeky beggar . the only reason we're even dignifying your crap with a response, is we want all those Boeing Aircraft , with the dual-use avionics suites"

    I will be very impressed , when Bush says the same thing in a country whose citizens have exported, financed and enacted terror globally.

    But I guess that just won't happen .
     
  2. Yes PTP, Geroge Bush should be telling both Saudi Arabia and China to be more tolerant of minority religions.

    But there could be a small chance that in light of the President's comments the Chinese could ease their persecution of Chinese Chirstians or would you prefer that Chinese Christians suffer for their religion because:
    A) Their faith was foisted upon them by a bunch of western imperialists and
    B George Bush championing their cause?

    Also I could be wrong ..... but I just don't think Communism is native chinese concept.
     
  3. At least Chinese Christians are allowed in some part , to pursue their religion, all be it heavily state supervised. That is not the case in Saudi Arabia.
     
  4. From China Daily via The Statesman:

    BEIJING, Nov. 20. — US President Mr George W Bush’s appeal to China today to expand religious, political and social freedom was met by his counterpart Mr Hu Jintao’s firm assertion that Beijing would not ape western-style political system and will improve human rights according to “the actual situation.” Mr Hu also said that China will not allow “independence” of Taiwan while agreeing to crack down on intellectual piracy, gradually balance trade currently favouring Beijing and make currency reforms.
    ...

    “China will continue to build up democracy with its own characteristics and improve its people’s human rights based on the actual situation and the aspirations of the people,” Mr Hu said after a 90-minute meeting with Bush at the Great Hall of the People in Tiananmen Square.

    ...

    US President Mr Bush today kicked off his high-profile visit to China by attending a church service here, signalling that Washington is resolved to push for greater religious freedom in the Communist nation. In the church’s guest book, Bush, now on his third visit to China, wrote “May God bless the Christians of China.”


    http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=96778

    I have read that the Chinese faithful who surreptitiously worship outside of the state-approved churches experience terrible government persecution.

    It's not obvious to me how much good Pres. Bush's sentiments, however well-intended, will do the Chinese Christians.

    I'm only guessing here. My knowledge of China is limited to eating in Chinese restaurants. However, the thought occurs to me that, by sponsoring photo ops for Pres. Bush at a Chinese church, the Chinese government is subtly discrediting Christianity in the minds of the uncommitted (or trying to do so).

    The government's implicit argument, I am guessing, is: This is your proper Christian, a round-eyed barbarian warmonger, psalm-spouting hypocrite, agent of western subversion, and enemy of China's newly-won prosperity and strength.
     
  5. Now there's another way of looking at it NWD.

    "Thank you Mr. President, for doing our propaganda for us, and identifying another set of potential enemies of the state"

    Oh dear....
     
  6. listen to the Journalist from Hong Kong, He starts about 45 minutes in to the conference.
    http://multimedia.heritage.org/content/Lehrman-110105a.ram

    This is not about religion though there may be a mention of religion in the conference it is about press freedom in China. I am sure their is a Bush bash angle in there some where , or anti american spin you can pull out of it so have a listen.
     
  7. I think Neo-Con is right... This is just Bush bashing...

    I think he has done well to highlight human rights issues on his visit to China... Other leaders have travelled to China and said nothing about religous persecution... So well done Bush...

    Don't forget its not just religions foisted on them by 19th Century missionairies that they have problems with... Falun Gong practitioners (not strictly a religion I think but anyway) also have to attend re-education camps... Not pleasant...

    Tricam.
     
  8. It's Bush Bashing because there is a double standard here. There is a very serious double-standard here. Was he motivated to comment on religous persecution, through some philanthropic sense of duty , or is this another shove in the back from the religous right?

    If he wishes to highlight religous persecution, then he could turn his sights on the Kingdom of Saud as well. I cannot see that happening anytime soon.
     
  9. Is it polite to appear critical of your host while on a State visit?

    I'm sure plenty of us would have something to say about it if a visitor to our country did the same thing.



    And I agree with PTP. The hipocracy is appalling. He should be saying something to the Saudi's as well!
     
  10. As for his motives... I don't know what they were... Probably some mixture of the two reasons you mentioned... But it doesn't bother me too much what his motives were... Do soldiers join the Army just to defend the Queen and save the world? Certainly that's a part of it.... But they also join for the adventure, cause they need a job etc etc... These are less pure reasons but it doesn't take away from the fact that they do good work. I'd apply the same logic to Bush and his China visit...

    I don't really have a strong opinion on what he should do about religious problems in Saudi Arabia. However, I groaned when he made statements a couple of years ago about supporting the younger generation in Iran and their search for democracy. I'd say it was counterproductive. I wonder what kind of affect the leader of the Great Satan would have if you made public statements about religion in Saudi Arabia?

    Tricam.
     
  11. Call me cynical but what if Bush had said nothing about China and its human rights position? Damned if he did, damned if he didn't I fear...
     
  12. Religion - Mediaeval claptrap invented to control the minds of the weak. "God knows you've been naughty!" - TOSH!

    Didn't vote for him anyway!