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Bus lane penalty charge notice

Emsav

RIP
RIP
Whilst I do not know who has issued the penalty notice, I am assuming it was not the local police. That being the case and the vehicle was presumably NOT stopped by an enforcement officer then said authority has to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that you were actually the driver. At present that proof does not exist (you are claiming that you were not the driver) – something that until I can prove otherwise I must accept. You, as the registered owner have been sent an invitation to pay an invoice for an alleged non-criminal offence. Should you wish to contest this invitation to pay you are entitled to see all the evidence being levied against you – even a mass murderer is accorded that privilege!!

In the first instance you would wish to see any photographic evidence – for all anyone knows might show a female driving (presumably you are of the male persuasion) – in which case you can prove beyond
reasonable doubt that you were not the perpetrator of the alleged offence – please do not drop your trouser in court to prove the point as the judge will not be amused. If, on the other hand, it is found to be a male driving then you have the opportunity of naming the driver if you know who the driver might be. The issuers of the invitation to pay have to accept your statement as to the driver, like it or not, they have no choice. Should that evidence be a photograph of a matriculation plate only - the case will fail - there is no proof who, if anybody, was driving. This is why so many attempted prosecutions for non-payment fail - the evidence is flawed.

This is a case where you can have some free entertainment at someone else’s expense – love it when a plan comes together. Once the issuer has information in respect of the driver your part in the matter is complete – they cannot have a second bite of the cherry if the driver decides to give the issuer the run-around. Now the entertainment starts – your “friend” (the alleged driver) will get an invitation to pay (presumably in English), oh dear - first mistake, your "Friend" does not read, write or speak a word of English!! He sits on the paperwork for a week or two then replies apologising for the delay saying he has had to employ a translator and wishes to be reimbursed for his costs (obviously the cost of that service is in excess of 150Euros) and that all future correspondence must be in his language or the issuer will be expected to pay for further translation fees. Make sure he writes in his native language – it totally confuses the bureaucrats and costs them money – most “councils” hate it when they try to pursue a debt that will cost them more to collect than the value of the debt.

A transport company near me sends out a standard letter to all those sending them invitations to pay letters stating that nobody in the office understands the paperwork and that they require 200 Euros – the cost of having the letter written in English and that they would appreciate payment without delay otherwise they will take action to recover their debt.

It is just a matter of knowing how to play the game.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Whilst I do not know who has issued the penalty notice, I am assuming it was not the local police. That being the case and the vehicle was presumably NOT stopped by an enforcement officer then said authority has to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that you were actually the driver. At present that proof does not exist (you are claiming that you were not the driver) – something that until I can prove otherwise I must accept. You, as the registered owner have been sent an invitation to pay an invoice for an alleged non-criminal offence. Should you wish to contest this invitation to pay you are entitled to see all the evidence being levied against you – even a mass murderer is accorded that privilege!!

In the first instance you would wish to see any photographic evidence – for all anyone knows might show a female driving (presumably you are of the male persuasion) – in which case you can prove beyond
reasonable doubt that you were not the perpetrator of the alleged offence – please do not drop your trouser in court to prove the point as the judge will not be amused. If, on the other hand, it is found to be a male driving then you have the opportunity of naming the driver if you know who the driver might be. The issuers of the invitation to pay have to accept your statement as to the driver, like it or not, they have no choice. Should that evidence be a photograph of a matriculation plate only - the case will fail - there is no proof who, if anybody, was driving. This is why so many attempted prosecutions for non-payment fail - the evidence is flawed.

This is a case where you can have some free entertainment at someone else’s expense – love it when a plan comes together. Once the issuer has information in respect of the driver your part in the matter is complete – they cannot have a second bite of the cherry if the driver decides to give the issuer the run-around. Now the entertainment starts – your “friend” (the alleged driver) will get an invitation to pay (presumably in English), oh dear - first mistake, your "Friend" does not read, write or speak a word of English!! He sits on the paperwork for a week or two then replies apologising for the delay saying he has had to employ a translator and wishes to be reimbursed for his costs (obviously the cost of that service is in excess of 150Euros) and that all future correspondence must be in his language or the issuer will be expected to pay for further translation fees. Make sure he writes in his native language – it totally confuses the bureaucrats and costs them money – most “councils” hate it when they try to pursue a debt that will cost them more to collect than the value of the debt.

A transport company near me sends out a standard letter to all those sending them invitations to pay letters stating that nobody in the office understands the paperwork and that they require 200 Euros – the cost of having the letter written in English and that they would appreciate payment without delay otherwise they will take action to recover their debt.

It is just a matter of knowing how to play the game.

Emsav, do us all a favour and do one. British law is a tad different from French law, and I doubt you are an expert on either although you seem to know everything about everything. Driving in the bus lane in this country does not need an enforcement officer to be present, that's why most buses and and all bus lanes have cameras fitted, to catch miscreants. He has all the advice he needs reference the British interpretation of how to go about this, without the ever present witterings of a person from the wrong side of the Channel.
 
Emsav is an expert.

On how to make her facial skin look like leather.

The French ****.
 

Buzz

LE
FPN's work because they don't need to meet same burden of proof as is required with more serious offences.

If you should choose to not pay and then later possibly perjure your self in front of the beak with a bullshit story about a Frenchman with one arm who was driving then fill your boots.

Or you could just cough up the £30 and move on with your life.
 

CC_TA

LE
Grass him up but remember:

Make sure you spell his name properly
Get his address correct and in the correct order
Make sure your hand writing and spelling is spot on

if you **** up any other the above it could take ages for them to sort out :)
 
Ask to view their evidence, saying you do not recall the incident and are not completely sure who was driving at the time, and this would be useful in allowing you to help them. If there is no photographic evidence, it makes their claim weaker.

His vehicle drive through the bus lane, traffic offence, whether you or I like it or not. He has a legal responsibility for that vehicle and who uses it.

He has to name the driver or accept the FPN himself, end of story.

If it was not so everyone would lie themselves out of a fine.


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 
Whilst I do not know who has issued the penalty notice.....
What are you wibbling about? Is there anything that you don't have a definitive answer to? Not knowing something doesn't get in your way does it?

A fixed / mobile camera image or the word of a shitty parking fuhrer (who nowadays take pictures of offending vehicles) is evidence enough of the vehicle being in the bus lane - the offence has been committed by somebody giving rise to the PCN being issued.

Once a PCN has been issued you may reasonably assume that it will be paid, either voluntarily or through the services of big ugly men in dark glasses & overcoats who will legally steal your car etc if you don't hand over the dosh plus their exhorbitant / extortionate fees

The only exception to that is a successful appeal - very rare in the scale of things but all the registered keeper has to do is prove way way beyond a reasonable doubt to a fuckwit council employee (who is paid commission on the amount of motorist revenue he brings in) that he (the alleged offender) was not driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.

That will entail grassing up his mate, wife, employee etc (who will need to cough to the offence and then cough up the penalty charge) or showing conclusively that he couldn't have been driving the vehicle or was not the registered keeper at the time of the offence.

Essentially, you are guilty unless Mr Jobsworth Nasticunt of Shitesborough Town Council says otherwise. It is easier and cheaper to just pay.

The rules in the third world across Mor Breizh might be a little different to here in God's own green and pleasant United Kingdom. Do you have roads with bus lanes or even roads yet?

Councils that enforce bus lane regulations are said to be operating decriminalised - or civil - enforcement of bus lane contraventions. The enforcement notices such councils issue are known as Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs). They are processed by the council and enforcement takes place through the civil justice system.

There are 3 stages to the appeal process - an Informal Challenge (before the issue of a Notice to Owner); a Formal Representation (after a Notice to Owner has been served) and an Appeal to an Independent Adjudicator (following the serving of a Notice of Rejection from the Council).
 

Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
How many times have you gone out on the lash and done 80-100 quid in one sitting? It's not even a third of a good night out these days. Get it paid.

Especially if it's been issued by council / police / traffic warden.

The only way you can get out of one of those three, is if the lane markings / signage does not conform to the TRSDG2002 Regulations. Which, oddly enough, is how I beat Reading Borough Council , this one time, at band camp...
 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
Emsav - 100% wrong.

OP prior to paying up just to avoid the hassle ring your insurance company as there may be a clause requiring you to declare any fines. A subsequent increase in next years premium might occur.

I am not saying this is a definate but insurance companys are having to recoup massive payouts and will try anything. Eg some require you to declare if you have been on a speed education course. These are the ones you can opt into rather than take the points on your licence (and increase in premium). Be careful and have a check first.
 
Ask to view their evidence, saying you do not recall the incident and are not completely sure who was driving at the time, and this would be useful in allowing you to help them. If there is no photographic evidence, it makes their claim weaker.

Won't make any difference.

It is the registered keepers responsibility to know who was driving the vehicle. If he can't name the driver it is his responsibility

For the sake of £30 its probably easier just to pay the fine.
 
Just received a bus lane penalty charge notice , £60 or 50% discount if I pay early , the thing is my mate was driving , he a Frog and is now back in France , on the paperwork there is a Statutory grounds for appeal sect it does not mention what to do if the car is being driven by a "friend " , shall I pass his address on in France , if he does not pay will they pursue me ? Ideas?


It appears that the Arrse collective(well those in the know, so discount Emsav) think you should put up and shut up.Now,the fee for this Arrse advice is £30,or are you denying being the OP and that it were your froggy mate who posted the above?
 
Whilst I do not know who has issued the penalty notice, I am assuming it was not the local police. That being the case and the vehicle was presumably NOT stopped by an enforcement officer then said authority has to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that you were actually the driver. At present that proof does not exist (you are claiming that you were not the driver) – something that until I can prove otherwise I must accept. You, as the registered owner have been sent an invitation to pay an invoice for an alleged non-criminal offence. Should you wish to contest this invitation to pay you are entitled to see all the evidence being levied against you – even a mass murderer is accorded that privilege!!

In the first instance you would wish to see any photographic evidence – for all anyone knows might show a female driving (presumably you are of the male persuasion) – in which case you can prove beyond
reasonable doubt that you were not the perpetrator of the alleged offence – please do not drop your trouser in court to prove the point as the judge will not be amused. If, on the other hand, it is found to be a male driving then you have the opportunity of naming the driver if you know who the driver might be. The issuers of the invitation to pay have to accept your statement as to the driver, like it or not, they have no choice. Should that evidence be a photograph of a matriculation plate only - the case will fail - there is no proof who, if anybody, was driving. This is why so many attempted prosecutions for non-payment fail - the evidence is flawed.

This is a case where you can have some free entertainment at someone else’s expense – love it when a plan comes together. Once the issuer has information in respect of the driver your part in the matter is complete – they cannot have a second bite of the cherry if the driver decides to give the issuer the run-around. Now the entertainment starts – your “friend” (the alleged driver) will get an invitation to pay (presumably in English), oh dear - first mistake, your "Friend" does not read, write or speak a word of English!! He sits on the paperwork for a week or two then replies apologising for the delay saying he has had to employ a translator and wishes to be reimbursed for his costs (obviously the cost of that service is in excess of 150Euros) and that all future correspondence must be in his language or the issuer will be expected to pay for further translation fees. Make sure he writes in his native language – it totally confuses the bureaucrats and costs them money – most “councils” hate it when they try to pursue a debt that will cost them more to collect than the value of the debt.

A transport company near me sends out a standard letter to all those sending them invitations to pay letters stating that nobody in the office understands the paperwork and that they require 200 Euros – the cost of having the letter written in English and that they would appreciate payment without delay otherwise they will take action to recover their debt.

It is just a matter of knowing how to play the game.

**** me.......never read so much Guff in all my puff !
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
I got a set of ratchet spanners and 4 litres of Fully Synth 5w 30 oil from Halfords today for less than £30.

Things I'd have to do without if I drove in bus lanes or hung out with snail eaters.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
It can be a minefield. My son-in law is a solicitor. He had exactly the same situation of another driving. Because he is driven by one of two people on certain days he forgot who it was on that particular day. He then gave a name, however paperwork and forms have been back and fore for nigh on a year. How he wish he had 'shut up and paid up'

£30 quid is not a lot of dosh, pay it and get the Frenchman to pay for the next nosh, including the drinks.
 
Nah, don't pay. Give them the said driver's home address in France and let them get on with it.
For normal law enforcement people the protocol is to get a letter of request (commission rogatoire) if you even want a phone number or car number checked abroad (unless you have a mate in Europol/Interplod).
This then has to go through the CPS, Home Office, then the FCO and then wings its way abroad.
Getting it past the CPS was always the hard part, the rest normally rubber-stamped it on.
Then wait a very long time.
For a private enforcement company forget all of the above, they cannot get any of it so just fulfil your part after telling your mate en France. They can then fcuk off politely.
 
I got a set of ratchet spanners and 4 litres of Fully Synth 5w 30 oil from Halfords today for less than £30.

Things I'd have to do without if I drove in bus lanes or hung out with snail eaters.

I can't imagine a life without ratchet spanners.

Try the 17mm to remove all those nasty bus lane signs.
 

Buzz

LE
I can't imagine a life without ratchet spanners.

Try the 17mm to remove all those nasty bus lane signs.
In all my years in the iron mongery trade I have yet to find 17mm to be a common fixing size unless you happen to be bolting together something like a tank or some large piece of civil engineering like a bridge.

Unless you are suggesting road signs are made from 4 inch thick plates of rolled homogenous steel.
 
In all my years in the iron mongery trade I have yet to find 17mm to be a common fixing size unless you happen to be bolting together a tank.

Unless you are suggesting road signs are made from 4 inch thick plates of rolled homogenous steel.

10mm bolt, 17mm hex head.
 
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