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Burma and International Law

#2
They should stay out of it until Junta say come in, Anything else is not only asking for trouble (including deaths of American military) but also setting a bad precedent for future operations.
 
#6
Ah yes, the idealist approach to international relations versus the realist approach: I have my brain in knots over this sort of scenario on a regular basis.

The realist part of my brain says I'd rather that ignoring internationally recognised sovereign territories and the rights of the governments therein to act as they choose does NOT become a norm; the idealist part of my brain says I want all of the offered governmental and NGO aid taken up PDQ and for the unfortunates caught up in the tragedy to be helped. As usual, it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 
#7
Still risky though, Therfore people could die for something thats A: Nothing to do with them and B:probably won't be thanked for it anyway.
Not worth it really.
 
#9
Give them 48 hours warning, then go in. This has gone on long enough. You would need a carrier to provide defensive air cover, but that would be it. You could be in and out in six to eight weeks once emergency aid had been delivered, with forces extracted the same way they came in.
 
#10
parapauk said:
Give them 48 hours warning, then go in. This has gone on long enough. You would need a carrier to provide defensive air cover, but that would be it. You could be in and out in six to eight weeks once emergency aid had been delivered, with forces extracted the same way they came in.
Of course it would be that easy, The Taliban don't have any air cover and they're not doing to badly, What makes you think the Burmese won't be any different?
Pull out after 6 to 8 weeks and let the Junta resume power? I can see that going down well with the general public.
 
#11
stacker1 said:
DozyBint said:
it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Your own people won't die if you don't.
True, but it's a similar moral argument to whether to get involved in countries where genocide is in practice. The whole of the 'free' world went into moral overdrive post-WWII when it was revealed how many people were killed by the Nazi regime, however, to date 'we' have done very little to prevent mass loss of life. Something that should be a simple moral decision is hideously clouded by the massive implications to the global status quo should treaties, borders and norms be ignored.
 
#12
Of course it would be that easy, The Taliban don't have any air cover and they're not doing to badly, What makes you think the Burmese won't be any different?
Pull out after 6 to 8 weeks and let the Junta resume power? I can see that going down well with the general public.
Regime change isn't the task at hand, aid delivery is.
 
#14
DozyBint said:
stacker1 said:
DozyBint said:
it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Your own people won't die if you don't.
True, but it's a similar moral argument to whether to get involved in countries where genocide is in practice. The whole of the 'free' world went into moral overdrive post-WWII when it was revealed how many people were killed by the Nazi regime, however, to date 'we' have done very little to prevent mass loss of life. Something that should be a simple moral decision is hideously clouded by the massive implications to the global status quo should treaties, borders and norms be ignored.
While I agree its a shame these things happen, Thats what happens when let countries rule themselves the only way to prevent it would be to take the country over and that would lead back to the British empire problems,
I do disagree with your moral overdrive comment When you think back over the mass deaths caused by China, Russia, Cambodia etc The way the arabs states used to be (still are in some cases) and the right-wing death squads of south America, While the free countries might have voiced a few concerns they still did/do business with them, Morals always give way to money.
 
#15
parapauk said:
Of course it would be that easy, The Taliban don't have any air cover and they're not doing to badly, What makes you think the Burmese won't be any different?
Pull out after 6 to 8 weeks and let the Junta resume power? I can see that going down well with the general public.
Regime change isn't the task at hand, aid delivery is.
You think that the Burmese Junta will just stand by and do nothing if another country enters without permission?
 
#16
stacker1 said:
I do disagree with your moral overdrive comment When you think back over the mass deaths caused by China, Russia, Cambodia etc The way the arabs states used to be (still are in some cases) and the right-wing death squads of south America, While the free countries might have voiced a few concerns they still did/do business with them, Morals always give way to money.
Sorry, I meant moral overdrive in terms of vocal outrage - in terms of action, the grand sum of bugger all of any importance has been achieved.
 
#17
parapauk said:
Of course it would be that easy, The Taliban don't have any air cover and they're not doing to badly, What makes you think the Burmese won't be any different?
Pull out after 6 to 8 weeks and let the Junta resume power? I can see that going down well with the general public.
Regime change isn't the task at hand, aid delivery is.
That may well be the case but Myanmar is incredibly isolationist even within the ASEAN grouping. Have you considered their perception of a US carrier group 60 miles offshore especially when you consider the rhetoric of the last few years...? Akin to the gunboat diplomacy of the 19th century?

Arbitrary action by the US alone would solve nothing - only a UN sponsored effort has validity in the overall international community. The issue to resolve now is for the UN to pull its finger out of its proverbial arse so as to be able to respond effectively to these issues when they arise in a truely apolitical manner. In the interim if the US or UK wish to actually help rather than scoring points why not push the aid via an ASEAN member state such as Singapore or neighbouring countries such as India? Does it really matter who gives the aid as long as it is given?

lancslad
 
#18
You think that the Burmese Junta will just stand by and do nothing if another country enters without permission?
If the timeframe and scope of the mission was limited enough, a great deal could be achived before they could mount a concerted response.
 
#19
parapauk said:
You think that the Burmese Junta will just stand by and do nothing if another country enters without permission?
If the timeframe and scope of the mission was limited enough, a great deal could be achived before they could mount a concerted response.
I think 6 to 8 weeks is long enough to kill at least some foriegners who have have invaded their land.
 
#20
DozyBint said:
stacker1 said:
I do disagree with your moral overdrive comment When you think back over the mass deaths caused by China, Russia, Cambodia etc The way the arabs states used to be (still are in some cases) and the right-wing death squads of south America, While the free countries might have voiced a few concerns they still did/do business with them, Morals always give way to money.
Sorry, I meant moral overdrive in terms of vocal outrage - in terms of action, the grand sum of bugger all of any importance has been achieved.
I undertand now, you mean like Bliar/Brown and Zimbabwe.
 

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