Bullying among officers

#1
(original post deleted)
 
#2
I know this dosn't help and isn't advice but as a comment, it is a shame that the chap in question's OC isn't more robust in telling the CO that he is a decent man and to grade him accordingly. Really the Regt 2IC isn't in the Chain of Command and should have no input into the grading of the officer. That is the job of the 1RO, (presumably the CO,) on the advice of the OC.
 
#3
Keep a diary of what was said and when.

msr
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#4
You dont say if you are in a Cbt Sp/CSS unit or a single battalion/regiment cbt arm. If in the former, the best bet is to move on fast somewhere else, if the latter things are more tricky.

I assume that the officer must have had the CO as 1 RO, otherwise the OC that thought he was such a good bloke would have written part 1. So for the CO to be 1RO, the captain must be age 28+. For a captain of that seniority to be getting B- ain't good, so perhaps a redress as to why this apparent lack of performance hadn't been picked up on the MPAR.
 
#5
(original post deleted)
 
#6
I have been away hence slow response...

Initial Comment: The Mil Sec advises that officers should not be given likely OPG and Potential gradings in their MPAR.

I'll think about this some more and come back if I have anything of use to add...

Agree it does appear that the OC is not looking after his officers.

The 2IC may not be in the Chain of Command but the reality is that a few poisoned words can sink an individual in the CO's eyes...
 
#8
BlotBangRub said:
A well timed "ND" can work wonders I am sure. quote]
If only. The old L2 in the sock draw can work a treat I'm told :twisted:
 
#10
Biscuits_AB said:
Gurkhas did one in Hong Kong I recall.
Those desk drawers are bloody dangerous, as is attendance at barbecues,
 
#11
The 2IC seems a bit of a spanker, however, your friend also admits that he is not a great performer.

Your friend needs to arrest his downward slide. This will steal the thunder from the 2IC. I suggest he asks for a career interview with the CO 'having thought about my MYAPR sir' and explains to the CO that he wants to improve. During the interview, he should seek to set objective standards which can be measured by both him and the CO. If he acheives, and indeed excells in these objectives [and keeps his nose clean elsewhere] then he should get a fair OJAR.

He could also try to have a face to face with the 2IC and try and clear the air - if this is unlikely to work, then his OC must protect him and give him opportunities to excell.

It is a good idea to keep a record of what was said and when so you can come back to people [and it provides good ammo for a redress]

At the end of the day, your friend is a Coy 2IC so he should have the experience to get a grip and resolve this.
 
#12
Back to the thread!

Something similar happened to me many years ago with a CO who had it in for me and a couple of other chaps. The new reporting system does not allow someone to take a dislike to someone and grade them on personality. His MPAR should reflect his performance and potential, if it is graded because he is in "dispute" with the Regt 2IC then he has a case to mention this when going through his mid-year with the CO.

The first port of call should be the OC followed by the CO in a formal interview with a witness if he thinks this could get nasty as it did in my case.

If he is young enough to be able to handle a B- at this stage of his career then he should look to move on and recover in more friendly surroundings. This is what I did and that was 14 yrs ago - as a young officer it is possible to recover.

Let me know in a PM or in public what type of unit he is in (combat / CS or CSS) as this will affect possible courses of action.
 
#14
I suspect the CO is the type whose first question to newly arrived subbies is "where did you school?" and the 2IC is an arch-mediocrity who aspires to be something very important at the army school of hang-gliding (apologies to committed hang-gliders). Short answer to all this is life's too short for kno**ers who haven't got the common sense, decency or grip to treat officers of allability with a sense of even-handedness. If you belong to an organisation which has the time on its hands for this type of b***ocks (whilst many others are dodging molten hot metal and locking up nutters in TELICVILLE) then you have to ask yourself, is this the army you wanted to join?

Tell your mate to move on to something better (in or outside) and if it's outside, he should give the 2IC a good slap in the 'boat race' as he regains his self- respect. :lol:

Extreme I know, but your mate has wasted too much of his women chasing, bar propping years already I suspect!
KnightsofRowallan said:
I come here seeking advice, although I will have to couch this carefully as this may go nuclear soon.
A good friend of mine (and officer) has sought advice from me about bullying.
He is a Coy 2IC. However he has for the last 12 months had constant negativity from the Regt 2IC (a man obsessed with the pink list and his OJAR). Everything from criticism about the way he talks to threatening him witha three month bender, in front of his SSM no less.
Admitidly my mate is a self confessed b-, but did get a B yes/dev on his first OJAR at the unit. Evertything was going alright, then the CO took a sudden dislike to him (thanks to the 2IC pouring poison in his ear we think) and without input from his OC, on his MPAR tells him he is looking at a B- dev/no. And thats that. no direction for the future, just a vague hint about has he considered life outside of the Army.
Now all the OCs have complained about this creature to the CO, but he can't sack him as he does do a good job of making the old man look good in front of his 1st RO.
Now the Regt 2IC is constantly sniping at him for this and that, sometimes his fault and he puts his hands up to that, but more often than not he feels he is unjustly being seen off. Now he did say something to the CO and the 2IC backed off a bit, but then he got a s*** MPAR and it was business as usual. Infact the 2IC did say to my chum during one conversation "yes, I have seen some of the points from your mid-year".
I thought these were confidential?
Now his OC thinks he is a good egg and has never had a problem with him. And he does the good officer stuff like raising money for charity, AT for the lads, is popular with the boys. Problem is he gobbed off at the 2IC last week and it resulted in the 2IC formally interviewing him and has written as report to the CO. So it looks like he is in the brown stuff. Poss 9926?3 month?Agai 67. don't know.
Hes asked me for advice but this is way above me. What do you think?
I reckon if he complains he'll get seen off, I don't think the old man would back him. Certainly witnesses for him will be in short supply. I think they may be trying to oust him, as sacking an officer shows you have grip apparently.
Where does a bit of harrying end and harrasment begin? What should he do next?
I'm not after stirring things up, but there are some fine brains kicking around here and I would like to use them.
Cheers fellas.
 
#15
KnightsofRowallan said:
I think I am safe in telling you that this is (not surprisingly) a CSS unit.
Also it is worth throwing a quote from the CO in at this point.
Having gone through the MPAR he turns to my mate and says:

"Whilst I'm not suggesting you resign, but if you have interests outside of the Army I suggest you start exploring them"
I gather that in civvie street this could be grounds for an action of Constructive Dismissal - I'm not sure if this can happen in the Army?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#16
You're on the right track, that's if it comes to dismissal, BB. The MoD have been succesfully sued for this before. Contrary to the rubbish your management may tell you, it's not difficult to prove.

It's not the fault of the MoD nor the Army, but sadly there are individuals within the Service, who feel that they are above the law and can treat people as they wish. Having a commission doesn't exempt you from bullying, it just makes it a lot harder for you to report and this will be played upon by the bully.

Forget any worries you may have about repercussions. Mere speculation of those not directly involved in the case.

Do you know who your unit EOA is? He will have the ear of the CO and this matter can be resolved at the lowest level, which is good for all concerned.

However, if I were the individual concerned, I would be phoning the Equal Opportunities Investigation Team at Bulford and having a confidential chat with thier OC. I would also be keeping a diary and recording the names of any witnesses if there are any. I'd also be collecting any evidence in the way of reports contrary to what 'the 2IC' is claiming. Your 2IC should be requested to explain what he meant by his comment concerning 'interests outside the Army'. Not the best line to use if you claim to be objective.

That's if I were the individual concerned.
 
#17
My advice would be forget the EOA. Muppett has some good words on this subject which should be reread.

I would add - ensure the CO notices him doing good things. He should engage the CO in conversation and get the officer concerned to demonstrate that he has plenty of initiative and that he is a real doer and a man of action. Life is competitive. He must show why he is better than his contemporaies.

Commanders take advice from many concerning subordinates and use their experience and own judgement when assessing individuals. Remember they have been young officers !

I hope that everything works out for the officer concerned.
 
#19
KnightsofRowallan said:
...its not like he has f**ked anything up, apart from missing the odd deadline for corp journal articles and niff naff s**t like that.
The devil is always in the detail, unfortunately.
 
#20
Yes... but what has he done that sets him above his counterparts ? It is no good just doing your job... what else has he done ?

Not a good sign if he is missing deadlines.. even though it is the Corps Journal. Things must be done on time - no matter what it is.
 

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