Bullpup Rifle

Gents I left in 1990 after 23 years service.
The Sqn I was with had just received their first 2 SA 80 rifles. I saw them but never handled or used them.
I read now on the net that Bullpups are not liked due to the difficult reloading of magazines, particularly when lying prone.
All of these comments come US originated threads on the net.
Over 20 years service in Brit army, so I would like to ask the opinion of troops who have extensive use of this type of weapon.

john
 
Gents I left in 1990 after 23 years service.
The Sqn I was with had just received their first 2 SA 80 rifles. I saw them but never handled or used them.
I read now on the net that Bullpups are not liked due to the difficult reloading of magazines, particularly when lying prone.
All of these comments come US originated threads on the net.
Over 20 years service in Brit army, so I would like to ask the opinion of troops who have extensive use of this type of weapon.

john
Bigger problem is not being able to fire it around corners left handed without getting a mouth full of bolt handle in MOUT/ FIBUA or exposing yourself unnecessarily
 
Gents I left in 1990 after 23 years service.
The Sqn I was with had just received their first 2 SA 80 rifles. I saw them but never handled or used them.
I read now on the net that Bullpups are not liked due to the difficult reloading of magazines, particularly when lying prone.
All of these comments come US originated threads on the net.
Over 20 years service in Brit army, so I would like to ask the opinion of troops who have extensive use of this type of weapon.

john

Good points and bad points on both traditional configuration and bull pup weapons. The thing with reading US forums is that they have a US perspective which is generally that "the AR is the only gun worthy of anything". Before anyone has a pop at me for being nasty and having a go about AR's please bear in mind I own three of them and have made a fair few empty cases using them.

I cannot speak to the SA80, but in general I like bull pups, and as soon as possible I am getting a Tavor X95. I have used a Tavor and a Keltec RDB several times and having been exposed to the concept in some depth now I find it much more convenient than the AR. It is much handier than an AR style as you benefit from an equally long barrel length in a more compact package - the length with a full sized barrel being akin to the length of a shorty 10" barrel AR. I find the mag change no more difficult than with an AR, its all down to technique and practice - something I find that a lot of "American internet gun x-spurts don't have, or do".

I left around the same time as you and all I remember of the SA 80 is the problems that the new rifle was having.
 
I’ve used L1A1, G3, L85A1 and (own) a generic AR-15.

I prefer the L85, and would give my right arm for one.

Both arms for an L1A1, but mostly for nostalgia.

Then again the rifle you have at hand is the best one in the world. Quite like my AR :D
 
I’ve used L1A1, G3, L85A1 and (own) a generic AR-15.

I prefer the L85, and would give my right arm for one.

Both arms for an L1A1, but mostly for nostalgia.

Then again the rifle you have at hand is the best one in the world. Quite like my AR :D

Next best thing to an L1A1 is a DSA FAL. I had one for a few years for the same reasons you want one and successfully scratched that itch.

 
I like it. So much better than lugging around that bloody stupid great big old cxxts rifle. Clattering off doorways, getting jammed in windows, or stuck trying to get it out of a vehicle. Utter archaic nonsense. Bullpups all the way.
If they’d made it a 7.62, well that would have been ace
 
Always used conventional rifles and used to them. Tried a bullpup at the range and found the weight all wrong, as well as awkward to use prone.

That said, also used a couple of ARs and find them a bit flimsy for my liking. Same old thing though, just doesn't feel right for me, like the bullpup. Personal take on it so YMMV.
 
Always used conventional rifles and used to them. Tried a bullpup at the range and found the weight all wrong, as well as awkward to use prone.

That said, also used a couple of ARs and find them a bit flimsy for my liking. Same old thing though, just doesn't feel right for me, like the bullpup. Personal take on it so YMMV.
If you ever get the chance, have a cabby on a Steyr AUG. Odd looking, but hands down the most ergonomic weapon I have ever fired.
 

W21A

LE
Book Reviewer
The problem with SA 80 was 'your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.' It had design and engineering faults that with some extra time and money could have been ironed out, but Enfield had to be sold and money had to be made. The A2 version is what it should have been from the start. I converted to the SA80 and thought ' What is this toy?' Later I went on a course where they still had SLRs. It was like meeting an old friend. Then I discovered I had outgrown this long, clunky, awkward, badly slung friend and that the short, well slung SA80 was my new bestie. It still had some problems though.
 

CC_TA

LE
If you ever get the chance, have a cabby on a Steyr AUG. Odd looking, but hands down the most ergonomic weapon I have ever fired.
Hate the scope on it, eye relief can be a bit of a dick if you're a lanky type or a munchkin. Also didn't find it as accurate or reliable as the L85. (Only limited cabbies, not used on a full deployment.)
 
The thing about bullpups is that they were conceived of and put into service in the days when individual weapons really were long and unwieldy in situations when space was restricted (L1A1, M14, M16, Galil etc).

In the meantime however, the Colt Commando/eventually the M4, with its shorter barrel and retractable stock came in, giving significantly more compactness but without losing the ergonomic superiority of the traditional layout.

I only tried the Tavor X95 on the range and didn't like it's lack of balance and ergonomics.
My son however had an M4 throughout his service, but in NCO's course got to use the Tavor. He was amazed at how bad he found it to be from the ergonomical aspect.
 
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The ugly truth is the personal weapon hasn't dominated the battlefield since the Boer War. Infantry tactics were based on getting a machine gun into a dominant position, calling in a support weapon, or just maneuvering around a defended locale.

Bullpups were an inevitable evolution to combine the trench clearance of an SMG and the Battle Rifle, but the brains who came up with the idea seemed to forget that the core job of a personal weapon is it has to be idiot proof and almost indestructible.. If anyone watched the chernobyl series they're made the comment that only men could survive on top of the nuclear reactor and like the cockroach, when every other weapon has failed, the personal weapon and soldier should still be in operation.

In Summary:-
The Bullpup simply turned the queen of the battlefield(Napier) into another machine that can break down.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Hate the scope on it, eye relief can be a bit of a dick if you're a lanky type or a munchkin. Also didn't find it as accurate or reliable as the L85. (Only limited cabbies, not used on a full deployment.)
Had one (Steyr) for 3 years. Hated it.

Loved my SLR, but mainly nostalgia. Also loved my A2 and boy did it shoot straight.
 
Hate the scope on it, eye relief can be a bit of a dick if you're a lanky type or a munchkin. Also didn't find it as accurate or reliable as the L85. (Only limited cabbies, not used on a full deployment.)
I have only limited experience with the Steyr......I have never 'lived' with one. I just found it really comfortable to fire. Just seemed to sit perfectly. Perhaps that is the problem with mass issue personal weapons. Everyone likes something slightly different, or finds different pros and cons. But the provider has to find a solution that is workable not only for the user, but for the logistics chain.
 

offog

LE
Bigger problem is not being able to fire it around corners left handed without getting a mouth full of bolt handle in MOUT/ FIBUA or exposing yourself unnecessarily
Wrong, I could spend some time looking for the youtube FIBUA film but let you do it instead.
 
The ugly truth is the personal weapon hasn't dominated the battlefield since the Boer War. Infantry tactics were based on getting a machine gun into a dominant position, calling in a support weapon, or just maneuvering around a defended locale.

Bullpups were an inevitable evolution to combine the trench clearance of an SMG and the Battle Rifle, but the brains who came up with the idea seemed to forget that the core job of a personal weapon is it has to be idiot proof and almost indestructible..
And FIBUA, bearing in mind that the main effort during the development stages was operations in Ulster.
 
And FIBUA, bearing in mind that the main effort during the development stages was operations in Ulster.
That and the fashion of the time for the APC/AFV and either debussing directly into a close in firefight, or alternatively beyond ordinary rifle range from an objective to make a concealed approach, whilst support pounds the enemy and again a final assault into an objective.

I actually think the clue was in the names: 'Battle' Rifle versus 'Assault' Rifle. When armies were willing to engage in mass casualty attacks to gain objectives and go onto to win wars the idea of a rifle that can endure long campaigns makes a lot of sense. Now we are back into short tours, incidental operations to avoid our side losing heavily and necessity of fighting battles and all that comes with modern war, the assault rifle is better than a battle rifle, until required to fight battles again.
 
I think if you ignore Die Hard references then the Steyr AUG aesthetically is better when stood side by side with the SA80 rifle. It looks finished whereas the SA80 as it probably was, looks as if every rifle was built on a Fri, with a 1200 finish! I fired it once and to be fair, apart from it "felt" better to hold it didn't outshine the SA80A2 i had alongside. Ive fired the M4 a fair few times since leaving the Army and as others have said, felt a bit too flimsy. Never fired or even held the A3 but i think all the previous issues are now long gone.
 

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