Buffel or Casspir? Suvivability??

Discussion in 'Southern Africa' started by candleford, Dec 18, 2009.

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  1. Ha!! Just seen these!

    http://www.30degreessouth.co.uk/stoppress.htm Scroll down to the Casspir & buffel toys.....

    Which would you rather hit a minestrike in? Buffel or Casspir - which has the best survivability? Was the buffel just a souped up Unimog?

    Are there any in the UK to see? I thought Vickers were making Casspirs under licence in Shrewsbury. Is that true? :?:
  2. Ok, so the question is about two months old...

    provided you were strapped in, both offer protection for two stacked mines. The Casspir offered covering from the weather (not too much of an issue in the tropics), and as far as I know, easier and cheaper repairablility after a mine strike. It was also reputedly better at triple-mine explosions.

    However, it had "issues" - cover the back doors with a gimpie and no-one could get out, and the visibility when reversing was legendry for the wrong reasons. Same problems, I guess, as the Ratel family. Buffel? Over the top, over the front, over the back no problems. Get all 10 men off in less than five seconds. Provided you don't mind sand and shit dropping into the back.
  3. The Buffel was indeed based on Unimog parts while the Casspir was a new design from the bottom up, done by the Centre for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) for the SA Police, where its name is derived from. The Casspir is a much larger and sturdier vehicle with better cross-country performance, and can mount far more weapons. The Buffel is long gone, replaced in SA service years ago by the Mamba (a close relative of the RG31), while the Casspir remains in use by the SA Police Service and SA Army, with the latter mainly as a weapons carrier rather than a troop carrier, and with some other armies too.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Baboon, was the Casspir not based on Bedford chasses?
  5. Casspir was, AFAIK, a development after the Buffel.
  6. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    The very first Buffels were made on a Mog chassis, the later models from the dust up.
    They were still a bit wobbly, but if the troeps were strapped in they were fine.

    As Bobo says, the Casspir was a much better veh than the Buff. That said, the SWA Wolf Turbo was better yet, if only on roads.

    I must admit to getting a little excited when being told, (in the Brit Army,) we would get the Wolf Turbo.
    Then we were given a souped-up Landie...
  7. No. Completely original design. You are thinking of the Hippo, which was the SADF's first mine-protected vehicle:


    The Casspir doesn't actually have a chassis as such, it is a monocoque design.
  8. Blimey - really interesting.... What's the take on the Ratel? Why does al this new afghan kit look exactly like the SADF gear? Deja vue anyone?
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  9. The SADF learnt alot about dealing with blast landmines during their various conflicts while they were apartheid pariahs and the rest of the world was tooling up for slugging it out across the Fulda Gap.

    IED are just bigger blast landmines. (there are a few differences, but some of the basic principles remain the same.)
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Putting it mildly.
  11. Second question first- because some of it is South African, such as the RG31 used by some countries out there such as Canada and Estonia, and the US in Iraq. The RG31 is built by BAE Sytems Land Systems OMC, a South African subsidiary of BAE formerly known as Reumech before it was bought by Vickers who were bought out by Alvis and then BAE. I believe though that the RG31 is now being produced under licence in Canada too.


    The Force Protection Buffalo and Cougar, the latter used by the UK under the names Mastiff and Ridgback, are clearly to an extent based on the Casspir, especially the Buffalo, though I don't think there is any formal link. Interestingly Force Protection's was originally headed by former Rhodesian SAS and 6 Recce Cdo CO Garth Barrett, though he left the company a year ot two ago under a cloud.

    The Ratel is a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle (in fact AFAIK the first one) more comparable to the Mowag Piranha variants used by many countries, such as the Canadian LAVIII, than to the Buffel, Casspir or Mamba. It does have better mine protection though with like the other SA vehicles a proper V-shaped underbelly.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. which brings me back to my original question - are or were Vickers building Casspirs under licence in Shrewsbury? A mate of mine working on the Terrier assures me they were.....
  13. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

  14. Never heard of it. Seems doubtful. I think the only Vickers connection is that they owned OMC at one point. Though I'm not sure if TFM (the original manufacturers of the Casspir) were part of OMC yet.
  15. Covert War by Peter Stiff contains quite a bit about the Casspir/Wolf Turbo, plus the machinations and bastardry involved in their development and service. If anyone wants my copy for nix, just PM me.