Brussels reportedly to get control over national budgets

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
The Telegraph is reporting that the EU is about to sign a treaty on Monday giving it power over the budgets of heavily indebted nations. If true, the democratic deficit in the EU has just widened alarmingly, with the Greek, Portuguese and Irish people stripped of ultimate control over their own destinies.Why vote for your own politicians when the ultimate decisions are taken in Brussels?

Brussels takes control of taxation and spending in eurozone countries - Telegraph

Brussels takes control of taxation and spending in eurozone countries

The European Union is to gain dramatic powers to control tax and spending in crisis-hit eurozone countries under a deal to save the currency.

The EU will have to agree the national budgets of heavily indebted countries under a deal to be signed tomorrow at a summit in Brussels attended by David Cameron. The move will mean Greece losing control over its own budget, after Germany and the International Monetary Fund laid down increasingly harsh conditions for the indebted nation to receive its second £100 billion eurozone bail-out. With the country on the brink of default, Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the IMF, yesterday revealed that a “fiscal compact” was set to be signed by European Union leaders at their summit tomorrow.
It would appear that saving the euro is more important than preserving democracy.

Wordsmith
 
#4
#5
That's because the Greek's attitude to money is, at best, laughable. A country that prides itself on tax evasion, and then wonders why it can't pay it's debts doesn't deserve to have national control of it's fiscal policy.
Fair comment but having a rather liberal view on whether you will pay tax or not and having the right for you to elect accountable politicians are both fundamental rights not to be abused by a foreign power.

The outer wrappings are beginning to come off, we are now starting to see what the EU was created for.
 
#6
The Germans will soon have had enough while the Greeks have a few hours for lunch.
Holiday bookings to Greece will be down this year and Germans love Greek holidays.
 
#7
As I posted somewhere on Arrse some time ago, it looks increasingly likely that holiday prices will become increasingly more competitive in Greece in the near future and along with that goes the chance to pick up with a nice bit o Greek frippit at a bargain basement price. Long time since I got biblical with a bird who has a moustache as big as my own.

Getting back on track, is the move towards total Kontrol by Brussels and the other place a foregone conclusion now? For the time being it's the PIIGS, but will there be a domino effect?
 
#8
That's because the Greek's attitude to money is, at best, laughable. A country that prides itself on tax evasion, and then wonders why it can't pay it's debts doesn't deserve to have national control of it's fiscal policy.
Agreed, BUT, it is their country and if they like evading tax that is their business and NOT the business of the unelected busybodies in blasted Brussels. If other nations or organisations lend money to the tax evaders, then again that is THEIR business and not the business of some box-headed oberfuhrer trained in Berlin and operating at vast expense and expenses, in Brussels.

This is going to be such fun - the Germans do not like people saying no to them and they have ways of making people obey.

Come on you Greeks! Greece, Greece, Greece. Come on you Greeks!

If the Greeks do not do as the Franco/German Axis is demanding, will Merkel send her panzer divisions rolling south? If the Irish say no, until they change their minds and say yes, how will Merkel get her panzer divisions to Ireland? Through Britain, straight down the M4 and A40 probably; because Clegg will throw a wobbly if Cameron says no. (Remember, the Bosch know their way to Castlemartin).

It will never happen of course, but wouldn't it be wonderful if the Franco/German dictators in the European Soviet Union realised that their dream of a mega state (capital Berlin or Paris - a war between Germany and France will decide) is nothing but a senseless, expensive and wholly unworkable, not to mention undemocratic, - dream?
 
#9
As I posted somewhere on Arrse some time ago, it looks increasingly likely that holiday prices will become increasingly more competitive in Greece in the near future and along with that goes the chance to pick up with a nice bit o Greek frippit at a bargain basement price. Long time since I got biblical with a bird who has a moustache as big as my own.

Getting back on track, is the move towards total Kontrol by Brussels and the other place a foregone conclusion now? For the time being it's the PIIGS, but will there be a domino effect?
I'd imagine very few risking Greek holidays this year and then it will be a big problem. I'm not sure how long Greece can continue to pretend they are playing the game. Set them free, that's what the people want.
 
#10
Eisen Kanzeler von Merkel and Napoleon Sarkozy must be creaming their shreddies hoping they can pull this one off
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Getting back on track, is the move towards total Kontrol by Brussels and the other place a foregone conclusion now? For the time being it's the PIIGS, but will there be a domino effect?
I think if Brussels does impose budgetary control on Greece, they'll be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

As they used to say in the old communist states, "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work".

If passive resistance/strikes become widespread, I could see Greece becoming pretty ungovernable and a de-facto failed state.

What is required is a mixture of carrot and stick where Greece is given far more funding from the EU for infrastructure projects (which create jobs) in return for hitting agreed targets. But this requires Germany, France, et al to to put their hands in their pockets and come up with the cash. As this is electoral suicide for Sarkozy and Merkel, they are not doing it.

What'll be interesting is how Spain and Italy react. They're too big to be pushed around by Brussels and they must be pretty aware of the domino effect. I wonder if they'll actually sign?

Wordsmith
 
#12
I think if Brussels does impose budgetary control on Greece, they'll be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

As they used to say in the old communist states, "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work".

If passive resistance/strikes become widespread, I could see Greece becoming pretty ungovernable and a de-facto failed state.

What is required is a mixture of carrot and stick where Greece is given far more funding from the EU for infrastructure projects (which create jobs) in return for hitting agreed targets. But this requires Germany, France, et al to to put their hands in their pockets and come up with the cash. As this is electoral suicide for Sarkozy and Merkel, they are not doing it.

What'll be interesting is how Spain and Italy react. They're too big to be pushed around by Brussels and they must be pretty aware of the domino effect. I wonder if they'll actually sign?

Wordsmith
I think this could be done as long as there was some stringent financial control from those donating money. What's that, it should be based somewhere where the organisation already exists? Bonza......
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
But there has to be a balance.Yes, the Greeks lied to get into the Euro, but they were one among many countries who broke euro rules. Germany and France did also - although not with the bare faced effrontery of the Greeks. And the EU blithely looked the other way in the good times and have now - shock, horror - discovered that Club Med have now run up unsustainable deficits.

I agree that the Greeks should sort out their economy, but the carrot/stick approach would surely have worked better from the outset with the Greeks being promised additional structural funds when an impartial external monitoring body agreed they had hit previously agreed targets. All austerity (without any associated financial carrots) is doing is driving Greece deeper into recession and making the Greek financial position even worse.

(Italy has recognised this - Prime Minister Mario Monti is making it clear that austerity alone is not doing the trick).

And the way the Euro zone is treating the Greeks is having knock on effects in Portugal - their borrowing rates are shooting up as investors increasingly realise Portugal is going to need a second bail out and will presumably have to impose its own debt haircut. So the Eurocrats are increasingly dragging Portugal down the same road as Greece.

I keep likening the EU to a pressure cooker - every time the Euro elite sees their precious euro project getting into trouble, they increase the pressure in the pressure cooker without asking if the safety value needs attention.

Wordsmith
 
#14
Not Brussels,,,It's Germany on the march again.....
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Here's some demonstrators with the right idea. Topless protesters at the Davros summit...

[video]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9046442/Feminist-group-take-topless-protest-to-Davos.html[/video]

I thoroughly approve of their qualifications for the job.

Wordsmith
 
#16
Here's some demonstrators with the right idea. Topless protesters at the Davros summit...

[video]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/9046442/Feminist-group-take-topless-protest-to-Davos.html[/video]

I thoroughly approve of their qualifications for the job.

Wordsmith
Cor! Phwoarr! The unwashed at St. Paul's could perhaps take a tip or two from these protesters. I say again: Cor! Phwoarr!
 
#17
Ah, yes.... nothing like cold nipples in the morning. Hmm, I had better take some bromide in my tea, or Matron will smack my ankles....
 
#18
Agreed, BUT, it is their country and if they like evading tax that is their business and NOT the business of the unelected busybodies in blasted Brussels. If other nations or organisations lend money to the tax evaders, then again that is THEIR business and not the business of some box-headed oberfuhrer trained in Berlin and operating at vast expense and expenses, in Brussels.

This is going to be such fun - the Germans do not like people saying no to them and they have ways of making people obey.

Come on you Greeks! Greece, Greece, Greece. Come on you Greeks!

If the Greeks do not do as the Franco/German Axis is demanding, will Merkel send her panzer divisions rolling south? If the Irish say no, until they change their minds and say yes, how will Merkel get her panzer divisions to Ireland? Through Britain, straight down the M4 and A40 probably; because Clegg will throw a wobbly if Cameron says no. (Remember, the Bosch know their way to Castlemartin).

It will never happen of course, but wouldn't it be wonderful if the Franco/German dictators in the European Soviet Union realised that their dream of a mega state (capital Berlin or Paris - a war between Germany and France will decide) is nothing but a senseless, expensive and wholly unworkable, not to mention undemocratic, - dream?
Yes it´s THEIR COUNTRY,but they´re spending every OTHER ******´S money,yes it´s that fcuking simple you nit!!
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Reports are beginning to emerge that the French might not actually sign up to a financial stability pact if its legally enforceable. This from the Guardian's live blog...

There's a great line running on the Wall Street Journal this morning -- apparently the French government is reluctant for countries to be penalised if they breach the maximum debt/GDP ratio allowed under the new fiscal compact.From the WSJ:

EU leaders will discuss Monday two final unresolved questions on the fiscal compact. The first is whether non-euro-zone countries that have signed the pact will be allowed to participate in meetings where euro-area issues are discussed.

Another issue is whether sanctions will be imposed when countries fail to meet the pact's requirements on debt-to-gross domestic product ratios. "The Italians and the French are not keen on the debt rules being up for sanctions," an EU official told Dow Jones Newswires Monday.
So its all right to impose sanctions on Greece, but not on France....

Wordsmith
 

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