Brunstrom backs open sale of heroin

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3460485.stm

North Wales Police Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom has told the BBC that he is prepared to see drugs such as heroin openly on sale because current drug laws are doing "more harm than good".
Speaking on BBC Wales' Dragon's Eye political programme, Mr Brunstrom described drugs as a menace and said that current policy was creating crime around massive illegal profits and leaving vulnerable people in danger.

"Heroin is very addictive but it's not very, very dangerous," he said. "It's perfectly possible to lead a normal life for a full life span and hold down a job while being addicted to the drug
8O
 

jash

War Hero
#2
Heroin is very addictive but it's not very, very dangerous



what the F@~k :? :?
 
#3
there has been a study running in southampton by some GP's who are lisenced to supply Diamorphine(heroin) to registered adicts. Intresting results. The addicts are actually as healthy as non addicts many hold down good jobs. Reason Diamorphine is pure and uncut with out the crap that causes many of the complications the addicts are getting controlled ammounts with out having to resort to criminality.
It used to be legal for a GP to perscribe to adicts. It also used to be legal to purchase laudenem(opium in alchol) from a chemist.
Maybe there is an answer there?? but i doubt it.
 
#4
nurse said:
there has been a study running in southampton by some GP's who are lisenced to supply Diamorphine(heroin) to registered adicts. Intresting results. The addicts are actually as healthy as non addicts many hold down good jobs. Reason Diamorphine is pure and uncut with out the crap that causes many of the complications the addicts are getting controlled ammounts with out having to resort to criminality.
It used to be legal for a GP to perscribe to adicts. It also used to be legal to purchase laudenem(opium in alchol) from a chemist.
Maybe there is an answer there?? but i doubt it.
Runs along the same lines as a trial in the late 80's in Glasgow run in conjunction with the Scottish AIDS Monitor.
If you remove the need to resort to an illegal source then you can control the supply.
It will always be abused, look at alcohol, but it cuts out so many of the factors that are the root cause of the social problems.

The study showed that as time went on that many of the subjects felt they could cope with reduced dosages and in some cases the switch to less addictive hypnotic and opiates.

Basically the same as anti-depressants, with better results.

Still see pieces in the Lancet re a few of the peeps. Many still on controlled dosages, (the overall government agreement allowed the administration to continue while the rather stringent rules were adhered to,) and many are doing well and exactly what the North Wales Police Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom has hoped, living normal productive lives.

Think prohibition, just to throw the spanner in.
 
#5
This'll be the same Chief Constable who threatened a prospective MP because she claimed (with some justification), that he treated motorists worse than burglars.

His force has a crap clear-up rate for crime, but massive numbers of speed cameras.

I suspect he thinks that if heroin were made legal, drug-related crime will end, and make his stats look better.
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
The point is that use of opiates doesn't in itself kill (Except when accompanied by a certain Dr. Shipman) , it is the use of unknown strengths sourced through unregulated (illegal) importation and distribution that is the danger.

For once the Chief Constable of North Wales is speaking some sense.
 
#7
maninblack said:
The point is that use of opiates doesn't in itself kill (Except when accompanied by a certain Dr. Shipman) , it is the use of unknown strengths sourced through unregulated (illegal) importation and distribution that is the danger.

For once the Chief Constable of North Wales is speaking some sense.
Agreed. Clean needle supply, uncut heroin and fixed prices/NHS supply would do a lot to reduce both the health problems of this addiction and the related crime. Bang goes the dealers' business.

After WW1 many were addicted to morphine and it did them very little harm. A far greater danger, IMHO, is posed by "recreational" drugs such as Ecstacy which, if my understanding is correct, causes the brain to be unable to utilise serotonin which, in turn, could lead to long-term and irreversible depression. It's all very well to party now, but in a few years the users could well be wishing they were dead.
 
#8
long term cannibis use isn't a healthy option either.

clinically i have administered cocaine as well in hospital.
 

jash

War Hero
#9
There is some case in the NHS/govt getting involved to cut out the dealers but can you honestly see Tony take on middle england to try to pass this through
 
#10
especially with the state the NHS is in now. Cept they can keep the profits for supplying and feed it back into fund the system.
 

jash

War Hero
#11
That might help the funding issue, maybe tony will find a way :lol: :lol:
 
#12
Maybe ask the dutch what they actually think of any official organisation getting involved in Drug dealing?

So if we do allow it, how do we prescribe it? who is going to supply it? tender from the local drugs cartel?
So then how do you become addicted in the 1st place? oh I know i will ask my GP to give me some to see if i like it 1st.

Look at alcohol and smoking, they are quite legal, but how much blackmarket selling goes on in this country?

what ever you think making drugs legal will not work.
 
#13
Also for got to say from your GP sorry you cannot get your appointment to see me, but the drug/alcohol abusers have got my appointments for the next 2 years
 

jash

War Hero
#14
What about the whole idea of free needles etc and aim to at least cut out one of the many, many problems associated with heroin
 
#15
agree legalisation isn't a solution.

What needs to change is public attitudes and the toleration of a 'drugs culture' and that has to start with a hard line being taken on soft drugs.
I actually think the army was in the right position but is now drifting unfortunatley.
 

jash

War Hero
#16
sorry im confused :(

do you want all drugs (illegal obviously) to be treated the same :?
Or do you want differenciation

Sorry its been a long day :)
 
#17
I think we need to take a long hard look at the Drugs problem this country has and deal with it at all levels from source to adict.

The provision of certain drugs in a controlled manner might be a way forward we do have legislation about registered adicts. But if we go down that line which will cost money we need to remove the illegal trade. Making registration to spefic doctors who deal solely with addicts could be an answer to stop it affecting GP's being overwelmed by adicts.
The Myths about drugs need to be challanged and exploded and were drugs are illegal the law should be enforced. I believe supply and trafficing should be automatic life sentences with no remission of sentence. And the first phase of imprisonment should be detox the hard way by 'cold turkey' with medical intervention in life threatening siuations only. All prisoners should be randomly drug tested at any time.
Random cdt should be introduced for all public servants including MP's.
 

jash

War Hero
#18
aggree with the drug testing of prisoners and civil servants, if the armed forces have to do it why shouldnt other government employees
 
#19
At the last count there were slightly more heroin Addicts than members of the british army (I was going to say soldiers but manchester monkey maybe listening And did'nt want to infalte his ego :lol: )
Alcohol and smoking are both legal and long term use of either of those will kill you. Having worked in brighton with junkies never known them to go damm I can't get any smack today. I'm not talking brain surgeons here.
The war on drugs is lost
The history of our drugs laws is even less rational than our firearms laws.
Personally I'm in favour of legalizing the lot including crack, nazi crank LSD the lot. Tax sell it in numbered batches with known strengths.
Use the money to build decent treatment centres.
Put most of the gun gangs out of business save customs and exercise a lot of time. Have draconian laws against driving under the influence if you can't walk a vidotaped straight line your going to have your car confiscated ( saves trying to collect fines and if you've been banned you won't be needing your car :evil: )
from personal experiance a heroin addict tend to stays where put monging out while a drunk tend to be lound and violent.
 
#20
CombatBoobah -
i will say again, who do you make them legal to? only those that already use them? how did they get them in the 1st place?

so make it legal for everybody? what age do you start? or maybe treat it like motorbike licence ? got to get a provisional 1st? then do the theory, pass test and then restricted to certain strength til you pass the next phase.
then some one who can get the chemicals easier than before will come out with a"new" version, but what if its too strong for the Government? sell it on the blackmarket? circles all over again.

For the person who said people manage their lifes while on heroin, i.e. hold down the job etc. are they managing? why would they need a chemical then?

What about the whole idea of free needles etc and aim to at least cut out one of the many, many problems associated with heroin
there are several schemes throughout the country that have needle exchanges, basically a 1 for 1 exchange dirty for clean but also with limitations, as you wouldnt expect one person exchanging 100 needles per week.

i will get down off my soapbox, for a while but i doubt i can be persuaded making drugs legal will cause nothing but more trouble for the country than we have now
 

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