Browning HP w/ British Markings

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by crossthepond, Aug 16, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I picked this up this evening. It is marked FTR 63 and is a Browning slide on an Inglis frame. Was wondering if Browning marked parts were used in the FTR process? Nice pistol.
  2. Found out that it is just a parts gun on an Inglis frame. The slide does date to just after '62 but no Browning marked parts were ever used by British armorers. Nice job matching the finish on the frame and slide. Just a shooter but a good one.
  3. Nice pistol. How I wish I could just go out and buy a 'shooter'.

    I am intrigued by your remark that BA armourers never used Browning marked parts. This weapon is something I have only practical experience of and I know nothing of its history in BA service, though I am aware of the Inglis production, of course. Did our pistols not come from Browning? Or were they simply not marked as such?
  4. In 1988 I saw a Browning HP that was still in MOD use in UK, datestamped 1943 & with an eagle & swastika within a circle proofmark. A little research revealed that it was made by FN in Belgium for issue to the Waffen-SS in that year.
    In the 3rd Reich years the W-SS was only allowed a certain quota of weapons from German Army sources; the Army tried to keep the quota low so as to thwart the expansion of their political rivals. So the W-SS was forced to look for alternatives in the small arms field particularly, this is the reason why they used so many foreign weapons. After the occupation of Belgium, the SS kept the FN factory open for their private use & continued production. They liked the HP as a sidearm, it wasn't as complex as a Luger & rugged enough to withstand the rigours of the Eastern Front. So this is how that particular HP came to be in MOD use, it was probably taken from a POW. When I saw it, it was still being fired on a regular basis, but I believe it was taken for preservation shortly after that.
  5. Makes me wonder about our Browning HP's now. Wonder if any of these older HP's ended up in TA armouries?
  6. BDS-my bold................Hmm-very curious that the thing was allowed to still be in service. In the days when you could still legally own a firearm in this country, those pistols with such a provenance would pop up cheap......and they were avoided like the plague!!

    The poor f...f....fellows who buit them would try and do their bit for the war effort and sabotage was rife: after many fatalities with exploding weapons, dangerous stoppages, etc many were relegated to Police and para-military units.
  7. As late as 3 years ago, I was using mags dated 1950's and a pistol dated 1962.
  8. Also, Telic 1, confiscated a brand new Browning HP from a local that had the Iraqi eagle perfectly engraved on the top and was fitted with Pacmar type grips, it ended up being given to the Commander of one of the Police stations we were looking after. Wish I had taken a picture now...
  9. The weapon was in an MOD Police armoury at an Establishment long since bulldozed. It was kept in good order, cleaned & fired regularly, & obviously still passed PRE as it wouldn't have been still in service otherwise. But bear in mind this was 20 years ago, & the MDP at that time used a lot of other peoples' castoffs - Walther PPKs were kept on strength for issue to WPCs as it was thought the Browning would be too heavy for them, but there was never any training ammo available for the Walthers so they were withdrawn. The only faults I've ever seen with Brownings are cracked backplates & a barrel lug which sheared off once due to its age.
  10. Yup, I know what you mean: once, as a v young Sgt, I was helping with an independant inventory check of another unit's armoury. There, tucked away in a corner, was a WWII era Canadian GP version (the one with a sliding ramp rear sight) with Bakelite handgrips! There was some rust in the barrel which soon cleaned off: no-one wanted to bring it back on charge - Board Of Inquiry, anyone?? So of it went to some regt museum.
  11. Remember firing one with Chinese markings at Lydd in the mid 90s, on a range day.
    It even had the slot in the heel for the butt/holster
  12. We still have an old one with the green cloth holster...It got issued a new holster but no one wanted to throw the old one out..must check the age of the pistol :)
  13. It is my understanding, after checking a couple of HP websites, that your military refurbed their Inglis built HP's in the early sixties. All the parts needing replacement were switched with FN marked parts straight from Herstal.

    The slide on this particular HP is marked " Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo & Montreal P.Q.", " Made in Belgium". This particular legend was inscribed only on slides sold in the North American market.

    So the pistol was rebuilt here in the States most likely, with a commercial slide.

    Still nice to have the British markings on the frame: an Enfield "shield", "FTR 63", and a crossed flags proof.

    These are great handguns and a product of our greatest firearms inventor (as well as the Belgian designer Saive who finished the design after Browning passed away).

    It is my personal belief that at some point UK citizens will be able to purchase and keep defensive arms including handguns, again.
  14. Wartime era HP's are still common here in the States, but fetch a good price. It is a great pistol to collect, but I think this one will probably be my only one. If any of you come to my area, give me a heads up and we'll go shooting. Could easily add in some whitetail hunting Sept- Dec.