Brixton Murder over an Orange

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by annakey, Jan 14, 2008.

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  1. A man was murdered just round the corner from here on Saturday over an orange.


    According to a local shopkeeper friend:-

    Two black men walked past the greengrocers on the corner of Electric Avenue and Atlantic Road and tried to take an orange without paying. The shopkeepers - who are Afghanis and "Never back down" - remonstrated with them. A while later a car drew up and five black men attacked the shopkeepers. The murdered man was the greengrocer's cousin, visiting from Afghanistan.

    Obvious irony: coming all the way to Britain from a war zone and getting killed over an orange.

    I've met plenty of deeply unpleasant Caucasians and know numerous kind, gentle Afro-Caribbeans. But there's a problem with violent British Afro-Caribbean youth. It’s often swept under the carpet, or not talked about, for fear of a racism accusation - political correctness stifling urgently necessary debate.

    Apart from obvious environmental solutions (jobs, housing, education, etc) some sort of mass therapy's needed, possibly in tandem with a collective apology by Western powers for slavery.

    The Jews got a nuclear-tipped state out of the Holocaust and are subsidised to the tune of c. $6b a year by the Yanks. The descendents of former slaves got b*gger all. No wonder some are angry, and a menace to their neighbours.

    Fortunately the neighbourhood's knee deep in CCTV so the cops should get them.

    Obvious questions:-

    1. What's to be done about violent British Afro-Caribbean youth?

    2. How can the censorship demands of political correctness be subverted to allow the discussion to occur?

    3. What steps can be taken to prevent the far right hijacking the debate to use as a stick to beat non-Caucasians?
  2. Yes, and maybe an apology from Nigeria, Ghana et al for taking captives from the interior and selling them to European merchants for vast profits. Reparations too? I don't see why some shit-kicking African peasant shouldn't donate his grain to, say, P Diddy, according to your logic.

    I would also note that the descendents of slaves who came here from Jamaica etc in the 1950s were a lot less 'angry' than are their grandchildren, indicating that the problem may not be their cultural history, but something deeply wrong in current-day Black British society.
  3. At least the orange existed, unlike those darn WMDs.
  4. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    The first point I'm going to make is that this thread will disappear extremely quickly should it be hijacked for racist purposes.

    Second point: if you think a collective apology for slavery would have any effect whatsoever on violence amongst young British 'Afro-Caribbeans', you're living in cloud cuckoo land. It would be a bit like changing the locks on the stable doors long after the stables have burned down.

    Third point: whatever the answer is, it isn't simple. We've only had a significant Afro-Caribbean population in this country for what, the last 50 years or so? They've really only just begun to integrate into British society and there's a long road to go down.
  5. AnnaKey
    Now as a jewish soldier of mixed race originally hailing from east london i can appreciate that you arent making a statement but i can wholeheartedly state that you are talking absolute drivel.

    "a collective apology by Western powers for slavery."
    An extremely simplistic statement. By this I mean do you seriously believe that the black youths involved would not have carried out this act if we as a collective had said sorry for a barbaric trade that the majority of those involved would have known little to nothing about? all i can say is stop looking at history for excuses for idiots, and look to the present and future for solutions

    I mean whatever next maybe we should apologise to the french for defeating them at waterloo, or the germans for not letting them win two world wars.

    Face facts the majority of slaves were sold to the west by africans themselves. now that in itself would be interesting if the africans apologised for capturing and selling the slaves to mean old whitey

    "The Jews got a nuclear-tipped state out of the Holocaust and are subsidised to the tune of c. $6b a year by the Yanks. The descendents of former slaves got b*gger all. No wonder some are angry, and a menace to their neighbours."

    if you think that they are angry, believe me all i can say on that post is that all we did was return to where we originally came from, right or wrong, maybe we should have just taken over half of germany instead but then maybe we would have to apologise to the germans for making them angry by getting the romans to nail jesus to a cross 8O
  6. How do you know the murderers were Afro-Caribbean and not African ?
  7. msr

    msr LE

  8. Actually, I've always thought it would have been best if the remaining post-WW2 Ashkenazim had been given the Rhineland- which had Jews living there before Germans ever did (in Roman times)- rather than Palestine...
  9. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    Not quite, they got Liberia, which was created by the US for released slaves who wished to return to africa, IIRC.
  11. Right as a nation we need to stop pussy-footing around the problem like a bunch of PC wet fish.

    There IS a gun and drug problem in the black community. fact.

    There is low employment and bad academic results in that same community. fact.

    The British govornment (not to mention the tax payer) has MORE THAN made up for any historical mistreatment of these peoples ancestors. Whats more it is rediculous to blame current social problems on the past, it was a very long time ago. Lets not keep providing people with weak excuses for they're lack of effort to be part of a functioning decent society. Surely the problem simply is that these criminals(which im sure are a minority within the black community) are not afraid of the police because of feeble jail sentances and a legal system weighted towards the criminal scum not the victims.
  12. without knowing exactly what was going through their minds at the time, and with hindsight, you would probably agree with me and say that had 'we' chosen one of the options then the world would have been a more stable place. howver they didnt and so here we are!
  13. Good question. The answer is I don't, in the sense of "know" meaning I haven't inspected a DNA analysis signed by a leading geneticist. But I trust my shop keeper friend, and other local sources, who claim it was an Afro-Caribbean > Afghani attack. If it turns out I'm wrong I'll report that on this thread and say sorry.
  14. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Love the comment about apologising for slavery. Annakey - try reading 'White Gold' - can't remember the author, but it goes a good way towards explaining to the ignorant (such as yourself) that the originators of slavery where black africans in africa for centuries before honkies even turned up on the scene. All those little tribal squabbles invariably led to slaves being taken from other tribers and then sold on to Arabs. The slave trade has been going on since the time of the Pharoes, greatly helped by ME countries long after. The people who were actually selling the slaves from Africa where, for many centuries, local men. White Gold is a story (with excerps from the diaries of one of the slaves) of hundreds of thousands of white Europeans that were held captive and traded as a commodity by the Moores.

    The European use of slaves was a recent addendum to the millenia old saga of slavery.

    As for the rest of the issue regarding the orange - that's what multiculturalism gets you - different standards of behaviour for different ethnic groups, with a great number NEVER integrating into the host society, and not bothering to learn the language. The ones that DO integrate, properly, often turn out to be incredibly succesful, while those that don't, often turn inwards and resort to crime, and happily brand themselves as victims.

    Mods: this is NOT a racist rant!
  15. Good. But don't forget that plays into the racists' hands. They see they can stifle debate, just as much as any Grauniad PC liberal. But I wouldn't want to mod a load of BNP guffage, so would do the same.
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