British volunteers answer armys call

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by armchair_jihad, Aug 7, 2006.

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  1. The North of England is not only home to muslims who volunteer elsewhere....

    AT FIRST sight Ben and his mates could be at a wedding party on the lawns of an hotel in his native Yorkshire.

    Except that this hotel is a short drive from the Israel-Lebanon border and, despite his Leeds accent, Ben is an Israeli soldier.

    Earlier in the day he was ducking Hezbollah mortars in the Lebanese village of Adessa, just across the border. Now he sits chatting in two languages about two lives — as a would-be medical student in Britain and as an Israeli soldier known among his colleagues for his stamina and ability to carry a heavy machinegun over long distances ( I bet his section loves him :D ).

    “My father is very supportive,” he tells The Times. “My mum is a bit anxious.”

    He says he feels more relaxed as a devout, skull cap-wearing Jew walking around Israel than in Leeds where he has been “spat at and called a dirty Jew” by Muslim youths. “Here I can walk around at 2am without looking over my shoulder.”

    Article in full,,2-2302119,00.html
  2. Hmmm...I bet those Muslim youths pray that "Ben" doesn't bring that HMG home to Leeds with him. How does the Enlistment in Foreign Wars Act apply to British Jews serving in the IDF incidentally? I am surprised that there hasn't been a question asked in the House yet. I think I may have to have a word with my MP...
  3. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    I think the Jews who carry foreign passports get an exemption. I used to work with an ex-Dutch Copper who was also an ex Isreali Soldier who was also an Ex Dutch RM. I think the Jewish population get an OK to go fight pass whereas the say a muslim wanting to join a jihad doesn't (but realistically, plenty went to fight in the Iran Iraq war in the 80s (ditto Afghanistan vs Sov's or Bosnia vs Serb-Croats) and nobody appeared to mind).
  4. Evidently doesn't consider himself British any longer.
  5. When this US / UK / UN force goes in (it looks likely)

    Are UK forces going to be allowed to engage "Ben" or will a human rights lawyer and some observers and journalists, bring in some unheard of moral angle whereby HMF were at shooting HM citizens?
  6. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    At that stage I think Lil' Ben may be in danger of treason should he/his unit/army get into a shooting event with the British Soldiers serving with the UN, at which point I think his 'licence to soldier with the Israeli army' won't save him from probable prosecution. In reality of course the Brit governemnt will just let him off and MI6 will probably try to recruit him... if he went to a decent uni.
  7. A person holding dual-nationality is not protected by the possession of a British passport from being required to do national service. Thus a British Jew holding dual nationality would be subject to call up regardless given Israel's conscription policies.
    Further you need to bear in mind that there will be Lebanese and Palestinians who also hold dual-nationality, and they too may be subject to conscription or may chose to fight for any of the Lebanese forces. In addition reports indicate that a number of foreign nationals have volunteered to participate in PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah over the years. Of the 10,000 British citizens in Lebanon a large proportion are likely to have dual nationality.
    The issue of multiple nationalities has existed for a very long time and at times of crisis like this raises it head.

    It is not a crime for a UK national to fight in a foreign army, unlike in some other countries.
  8. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Unless it is against us, right?
  9. That would be treason.
  10. North Leeds has a large Jewish community and for many years its been common for lads of Jewish decent to volunteer for the IDF.

    Leeds Jews originally settled in the poor areas of South Leeds, with a large number working as tailors, they moved out years ago and they were eventually replaced by muslims (including the 7/7 bombers).
  11. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    IIRC IDF National Service is a requirement, not a volunteer thing. It isn't that Mossad comes and picks you up if you don't but I think if you try to dodge it and then try to enter Israel a few years later you'll be immediatly whisked off down to the nearest barracks for 2 years, regardless of your obligations back home. If you are too old you get some jail time instead. I know a few lads that never did it but I am working on the guess that they don't visit their relatives in Tel Aviv that often either... If there is any one of Gods chosen people that can confirm or deny my dodgy memory please do so...
  12. As far as I'm aware, these 'volunteers' didn't have an Israeli passport, their families had been in the UK since 1800's or earlier.
  13. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    I am pretty sure that anybody 'of the faith' can get an Israeli passport on application.
  14. And the families will have been careful to maintain their dual citizenship.
  15. The Foreign Enlistment Act makes it a crime for a British subject to enlist in the army of a foreign nation that is at war with any country that the UK is at peace with.

    As the Israelis are attacking the civil infrastructure in Lebanon in order to put pressure on the Lebanese government, they could reasonably be considered to be at war with Lebanon. The UK is not at war with Lebanon. As this man joined the Israeli army before the Israelis attacked Lebanon, he may not be committing an offence under the act, but any British person who did so after the fighting started certainly would. Whether they would be prosecuted for the crime is a different matter.

    There is no exception in the Foreign Enlistment Act for people who hold dual nationality.

    If the proposed peace keeping force included a British contingent, and if the British were attacked by the Israelis, any British citizen in the IDF would theoretically be guilty of treason, irrespective of the fact that they were also Israeli citizens. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to be extradited to the UK, though.