British troops accused of mistreating Iraqi prisoners

#1
Just seen the BBC showing images from tomorrows Daily Mirror, supposedly some British troops have been mistreating Iraqi prisoners. Not on the main news websites yet.



Edit: Originally red "Daily Mail" changed to read "Daily Mirror"
 

FBW

Old-Salt
#3
just seen Gen M Jackson on BBC news saying they are investigating but they haven, been proved yet

really hope it isn,t true :x
 
#4
Just saw General Sir Mike Jackson on the news - handled it very well. But then again he didn't talk a load of crap, try and spin it, change the subject and attack the media. So he can't be a politician then. Thank god.
 
#5
There must be some mistake. When I joined the army we used to run a PH+TQ course every month.

It seemed that 4 years ago, the Army was no longer prepared to endorse this as a valid training need and the course was cancelled. Must be beacause the LOAC ITD package was so hot......

Blank SOTR forms anyone???
Now Only Crown Training Services can save the day!!!!
:wink:

That's Prisoner Handling and Tactical Questioning Jake, before you ask
 
#6
Vultures around the carcass, so to speak.

Shite happens in any walk of life, I would like to think we are better than that and every barrel has a bad apple or two.

I would think the American experience stands beyond the pale, but I guess we will have to wait until the dirt diggers give us their verdict.


I went to the Dunny last week and used grass, I guess Greenpeace or any other Tree Hugger do Gooder will be after me.

I am totally desolated to be on their Hit List :D :lol:

I see 4 posts have been posted , before I posted mine, there is no excuse for any of these latest allegations, if true they are a disgrace to the uniform they wear. :cry:
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#7
Mr Blair's official spokesman said: "The US army spokesman has said this morning that he is appalled, that those responsible have let their fellow soldiers down, and those are views that we would associate the UK Government with."
FFS the government won't even come up with their own condemnation of these crimes. Bunch of losers the lot of them. :evil: :evil: :evil: As has been said already by everyone that has replied on this topic, the perptrators are criminals and should be treated as such. It is harder to think of a more clear cut example of mistreatment of prisoners.

At least Sir Micheal says what he means.

Sir Michael Jackson, chief of the general staff, said: "If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful but also contravenes the British Army's high standards of conduct.

"The allegations are already under investigation.

"Again, if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform and they have besmirched the Army's good name and conduct."
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#8
It is absolutely stomach churning. Heads need to roll right the way up the QLR chain of command if this turns out to be true. We've been able to justify our presence by saying we've improved things for the Iraqis, but if this is going on, then we haven't really...

Feck this, I'm going for a morose beer somewhere... :cry:
 
#10
Following the dubiousness of the reasons for the Iraq operation, the British public had mixed feeling towards the army; by a demonstration of total professionalism the army regained public confidence, dispite the best efforts of the politicians; if these latest allegations prove to be true then public confidence in the army will be knocked again.
I firstly hope the allegations will be disproved, but failing that, I hope that all those involved, as high up the chain of command as is necessary, get beasted out of sight. To qoute CGS, 'they are a disgrace to the Queens uniform'.
 
#11
"if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform and they have besmirched the Army's good name and conduct"

hear, hear
 
#12
IMHO, you can defeat an Army intent on world domination and a bizarre hobby interested in peculiar genetic experiments with all the human rights issues that that has attached to it and become the most shaggable bloke next to Brad Pitt, anywhere in the British Isles, even in the Kyle of Loch Alsh. But some retarded bedding storeman from the 8th Mess Tin Welding and Fitters section who swears at a member of civpop can ruin the whole shooting match in one go for the good and benefit. Strange world. Generalisation and simplistic view, you understand.

Short memories and a general lack of patriotism in the British general public based on a repugnant need to appear on 'The Trisha' show and a lack of military bearing brought on by the fact that few members of the populace know any cnut who has served in HMF, is bringing this country to its knees.

Not defending the actions, if proven but I feel we should mount an operation that silences these so called 'do gooders' we call journalists. If they feel the need to 'out' such activities that they consider to be in the public interest, they would no doubt be happy to work for free. After all, if their moral conscience is so strong, they won’t have an issue over doing it 'gratis'. Bring on the first journo strike. I would volunteer to be on the front line to quell the uprising, armed with nothing more than wit, quick response humour and a bergan full of biohazard condoms with a regional journos name on it. Bunch of Ozone abusers. I have had a closer relationship with growths on my rectum than I would care to have with these mentally deficient capitalist pig dogs.

Journos; you can’t all be Kate fcuking Adie and be 'famous'. Try reporting the news as opposed to trying to 'make the cnunting news', cnuts.

Message ends.
 
#13
Flash

at last some practical uses for the AH 64: simply feed the NUJ members directory ( geo referenced) into the mission planning system and hey presto! a Ramallah style solution to our media relations needs!!

IMOH if the mainstrean of the army can not start learning to cope with assymmetry, it will just get shrunk down and wheeled out of St John's Wood and Knightsbridge once a year for ceremonial, with only SF capable of doing actual operations.

Whilst there is some culpability within the QLR chain of command, the army is merely re learning what it discovered after Op MOTORMAN. You need to have firm doctrine, individual and collective training and SOPS to get prisoner handling right. We set all this in motion back then.
Unfortunately it does not go bang and it isn't sexy, "move it down to the bottom of the pile again Darling"

"Well it's gone bang now General......."
Shock - horror -probe or has the wheel just turned full circle again??????
 
#14
manchestermonkey said:
Ok just been published onto the BBC: BBC news
It would appear to have originated from the Daily Mirror. I've managed to hold onto my queasy stomach and found the link:

Daily Mirror - UK Soldiers

I personally hope that, if proven true and they manage to identify the lads involved, Jacko's words are taken as he stated and they are thrown out of the firm. Just noticed in the Mirror's article:
Mr al-Sheik said British troops in Basra prided themselves on being able to patrol the streets without hard helmets or body armour.
Hearts & Minds? On Telic I we went over the border without body armour because we didn't have any... But at least I had a couple of rounds of ammunition. :)
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#15
The Lord Flasheart said:
Not defending the actions, if proven but I feel we should mount an operation that silences these so called 'do gooders' we call journalists. If they feel the need to 'out' such activities that they consider to be in the public interest, they would no doubt be happy to work for free. After all, if their moral conscience is so strong, they won’t have an issue over doing it 'gratis'.
subsonic said:
at last some practical uses for the AH 64: simply feed the NUJ members directory ( geo referenced) into the mission planning system and hey presto! a Ramallah style solution to our media relations needs!!
Blaming journos for exposing this is daft - and also misses the point. We are meant to be a disciplined force capable of operating sanely under difficult circumstances, not a bunch of cowboys. According to the news stories, this Iraqi was detained for several hours, which raises the questions:

What was the team/multiple commander doing while this was going on?

What were the company hierarchy doing?

And if 'horrified comrades' were able to take photographs of the abuse, which they subsequently pass to the press, why weren't they able or inclined to stop this abuse while it was happening?

subbsonic said:
Whilst there is some culpability within the QLR chain of command, the army is merely re learning what it discovered after Op MOTORMAN. You need to have firm doctrine, individual and collective training and SOPS to get prisoner handling right. We set all this in motion back then.
Unfortunately it does not go bang and it isn't sexy, "move it down to the bottom of the pile again Darling"
Not to mention the Falklands (Longdon execution), Gulf War 1 (various incidents) etc etc. The fact is that actually we pay lip-service to teaching LOAC. Last time I was unable to skive a LOAC lecture, they were still using that crap video shot at Imber with the "You take his watch Smudge, and I'll 'ave the gold teeth..." dialogue. A young Tom watches that, then goes back to his scratcher and throws Blackhawk Down on the DVD. Which is more realistic? And which is more likely to influence his behaviour?

I'm rambling like a cnut now, but this has really pissed me off :(
 
#16
Chickenpunk brings up a good point, where were the chain of command? Where was the multiple commander when this was happening?

Heads are going to roll, and i doubt if just the heads of those responsible will be enough to take the edge off what is an extremely serious breach of discipline.

Another good point from CP, the bastard shot schofield video just doesnt cut it any more.
 
#17
Flash, it's a complete waste of energy having a pop at the journos - they are doing their job. If those QLR soldiers had been doing theirs, we wouldn't be in the humiliating position of having the British Army's name linked with the Americans abuse of their prisoners - did you notice how easily the Mirrir article moved from discussing the British case with the condemnation of the American case? Those stupid Brit soldiers have just managed to link the British Army with the worst of the American's.

And we have already had a discussion about the QLRs treatment of prisoners on this site - are these new photos or are they part of the bunch of photos that were published some months ago?
 
#18
I have just seen the Daily Mirror. These photos seem to be new. Indeed, I was struck by how clear they are; very high resolution (to enable enlargement to full page), well lit and well exposed. Looking at the pic of the soldier apparently jabbing his rifle butt into the prisoner's groin, and the one where the soldier seems to be kicking his neck - both look rather stiff - there is no sense of movement, suggesting either that the pictures were posed, or that a very high shutter speed was used, again suggesting very good quality equipment and a skilled photographer. The same is true of the pissing soldier pic. Reading the accompanying text, the prisoners is supposed to have been beaten - they mention knocking teeth out and him bleeding. Yet there is no blood, bruising or any other marks on the prisoner. Each photograph seems to have been carefully taken to obscure the identity of the soldier. From the pictures shown, there is no sense of location. These photos have a very deliberate air about them; they don't invoke the feeling of a squaddie grabbing a few snaps as a souvenir in the heat of the moment.

Compare these pictures with those from Abu Ghraib - they seem to have been taken with a low resolution camera like those in phones. The faces are shown, because the pics were clearly intended to be souvenirs.

Whilst I continue to think that anyone abusing prisoners should be robustly dealt with, I am suspicious of the Mirror's pictures. Posed pics to bolster a 'good story'? sold by someoe to make a quick buck? Or the real thing? Anyone else seen them and think the same?
 
#19
Appalled by the photos in the mirror, but as halready been mentioned they do look suspiciously posed. I can't believe that anyone in QLR would be so stupid after the last incident :!:
 
#20
Ditto the above, those photos look decidedly suspicious. There's only one on the paper's website:

...and if that's a kick I'm a dutchman.

Now if the prisoner looked like this after his ill-treatment:

...he should be worried.

.....No, No! Only joking, Your Darkness!
 

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