British Soldiers Admit Abusing Afghans

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
With typical BBC lack of research the PM programme on Radio4 described one of them as "an officer" who had been "reduced to the ranks" as a punishment.
 
#4
With typical BBC lack of research the PM programme on Radio4 described one of them as "an officer" who had been "reduced to the ranks" as a punishment.
Commando Comics have a lot to answer for.
 
#5
Ref: Reduction in the ranks.

True story. About 5 or 6 years back, a group of police lay visitors turned up at a nick: Paddington Green as memory serves me. As part of their visit, they asked to see a selection of old video recordings of the custody area.

Imagine their surprise, when a uniform inspector was seen alone in one of the cells knocking one out. Huge embarrassment, followed by a rigorous investigation. The offending inspector was identified and subsequent appeared in front of a disciplinary board. He was dismissed the service but he appealed against sanction.

The appeal was allowed and the sanction varied to reduction to PC.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to show his face again under those circumstances? His life would have been unbearable.
 
D

Davetheclown

Guest
#6
it used to be a prevalent military offence having a ****, on AA55, not sure it stands now ?

before anyone says it, I am a hardened criminal.
 
#8
Ref: Reduction in the ranks.

True story. About 5 or 6 years back, a group of police lay visitors turned up at a nick: Paddington Green as memory serves me. As part of their visit, they asked to see a selection of old video recordings of the custody area.

Imagine their surprise, when a uniform inspector was seen alone in one of the cells knocking one out. Huge embarrassment, followed by a rigorous investigation. The offending inspector was identified and subsequent appeared in front of a disciplinary board. He was dismissed the service but he appealed against sanction.

The appeal was allowed and the sanction varied to reduction to PC.

Can you imagine anyone wanting to show his face again under those circumstances? His life would have been unbearable.
Nice bit of thread diversion there, but a cracking story! :)

Back on thread; in my humble opinion, the muppets involved should have had the book thrown at them, as their unprofessional and sordid actions have presented terry with a gift-wrapped opportunity to recruit even more brainwashed young radicals to their cause. Moral highground? Hardly.
 
#9
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, which aims to promote better understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims, said he was alarmed and disgusted by the "minor" sentences given to the two men.

Is this where the phrase "contradiction in terms" comes from?
 
#12
I don't know how much was written on the previous thread but this is strangely quiet for something as damning and unpleasant. Is this an isolated incident or the tip of the iceberg.

I am slightly uneasy that one of them has been allowed to stay in the Army after his ( I presume male ) conviction, maybe it's me overreacting.


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cpunk

LE
Moderator
#13
Yes, a disgusting story in many ways. I think the fine and reduction in rank for the racial abuse was probably appropriate but the non-custodial sentence for the 'conduct prejudicial to good order and service discipline' offence seems surprisingly lenient, as indeed does the charge itself.
 
#14
Yes, a disgusting story in many ways. I think the fine and reduction in rank for the racial abuse was probably appropriate but the non-custodial sentence for the 'conduct prejudicial to good order and service discipline' offence seems surprisingly lenient, as indeed does the charge itself.
The implication to me is that there was not enough evidence for a charge under a meaningful section. S69 of the Army Act was a catch all in my day to pin something on a soldier when there was nothing else to book him with. It was possible back in the day get bang a soldier up for a month under a guilty verdict with S69 but anything else tended to be under another section.

IMO the prosecuting evidence must have been rather thin.

Anyone got a copy of the prosecution evidence?
 
#15
Yes, a disgusting story in many ways. I think the fine and reduction in rank for the racial abuse was probably appropriate but the non-custodial sentence for the 'conduct prejudicial to good order and service discipline' offence seems surprisingly lenient, as indeed does the charge itself.
I don't know the full story so correct me if I'm wrong but - couldn't it be the case that something has been blown out of all proportion but has been enthusiastically pursued in the misguided thought that publicising it will show certain people that we are also 'on their side' in the hope it will change opinions?
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#16
According to the story, some or all of these offences were filmed by the soldiers involved or their mates. The racial abuse was hanging a notice round an Afghan's neck with the words 'Silly Paki' written on it, just the kind of advert we need for the modern British Army and reminiscent of what the Nazis did to Jews in the years before they started killing them.
 
#17
It is unfortunate that news stories such as these seem to get more air time than Soldiers and civilians being killed and maimed daily in various sandy places we are, or have served in recently. It is a shame that it has tarnished (a little), the image of our armed forces in they eyes of some who are sensitive to such things.
But in truth is it any worse than us going out in NI with pockets full of sweets so you could use kids as a human shield, or any of the other various stunts and and decompression tools pulled by squaddies when placed in intense life threatening situations? In my opinion no. Clearly there needs to be rules on how civilians are treated and it appears that this has been dealt with by the military appropriately.
To the bleeding hearts out there I would say, I am sorry you don't like what goes on in the real world, but accept that it does and will continue to do so as long as young men and woman are placed in these conditions. Leave it to the military to deal with but don't dare to judge the errant few based upon a complete lack of understanding.

Bit of a rant, I feel better now.
 
#19
According to the story, some or all of these offences were filmed by the soldiers involved or their mates. The racial abuse was hanging a notice round an Afghan's neck with the words 'Silly Paki' written on it, just the kind of advert we need for the modern British Army and reminiscent of what the Nazis did to Jews in the years before they started killing them.
In the overall scheme of things - do you think it was better to publicise this or not - considering we are still out there? It appears to me that the mandarins are are weighing up "shall we offer a sacrificial lamb to show intent" with "shall we keep quiet lest there be repercussions". I'm betting that the racism element was the deciding factor in overtly pursuing this.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#20
In the overall scheme of things - do you think it was better to publicise this or not - considering we are still out there? It appears to me that the mandarins are are weighing up "shall we offer a sacrificial lamb to show intent" with "shall we keep quiet lest there be repercussions". I'm betting that the racism element was the deciding factor in overtly pursuing this.
I don't think it's ever a good idea to cover up criminal behaviour. Do you?
 

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