Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Malteser, Dec 2, 2006.
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Source: Daily Mail
So was Bowman and they ignored how crap they were told that was too...
Stating the obvious?
There was a post a few months ago, possibly in QMs about Osprey body armour being too cumbersome; but I can't find it at the moment.
Looks like the MoD can't do anything right at the moment. The quote of the MoD's reponse to a load of bergens being shot up is beggars belief though; surely they realise some kit will be "lost" due to operations??
I have spoken to people who preferred no body armour at all - or didn't "like" the ceramic plates, due to the reasons listed above. Perhaps some opinions? Surely at the moment mobility and armour is the same comprimise with individual soldiers as armoured vehicles etc?
I found my grouping and zero affected by kevlar, though my live experience was very limited - remedied by wedging rifle butt into webbing strap; but some people were really struggling.
I got a briefing from one of the 3 PARA OCs at a DEC GM industry day a couple of weeks ago. He too was utterly scathing on Osprey and Kestral.
He said that the only people that did use it were those on veh crew weapons or roof guard positions as there they didn't move and the protection was worthwhile.
For the rest of his guys and anyone requiring to move under their own steam by foot, they weren't used as if you wore it for anything more than 20 mins, you cooked and became a heat casualty.
Not fit for purpose.
I too am shocked at the statement about the lost kit.........
How the hell are the lads meant to operate if they cannot get kit replaced.
I just got back from Camp Bastion, worked in the QMs, we put 35 separate issues up the chain of command, not 1 got past our Adj despite chats! with the QM.
When you do as your supposed to its still buried.
"The MOD said it was up to commanders on the ground to assess which body armour their men should wear.
A spokesman said: "Osprey body armour was widely tested by soldiers in the Infantry Trials Development Unit.
"It offers superb protection and saves lives. Any issues about equipment should be reported through the chain of command." "
This is complete garbage. What MOD is doing is seeking to blame Commanders on the ground for any potential casualties, and the ITDU for approval of this kit for use in the current operations in Afhanistan and Iraq. What were the test parameters and circumstances? Did this kit get trialed with any operational units at all?
Why was it not tested earlier by troops in both theatres? After all they've been deployed there for a few years now. It's MOD's job to ensure the effectiveness of all kit for use in all theatres, and yet again it has failed.
As to 'it saves lives', oh really? Any practical examples of this - or is this just a pious hope?
And note the comment from Green Goddess about passing complaints up through the CoC. If this isn't working then it's probably best to do a Dannatt. Not good for the career path though...
This body armour is absolutely s**t. You might as well have an EOD suit on. It was issued for top cover in Iraq at first which is allright till you have to de-bus and move about, Snatch comds and dvrs cant move at all when wearing it. It seems like its been rushed into service to keep media etc happy about kit for troops but the truth is its a liability, blokes opt for not wearing it knowing they can move and react quicker in a contact and they can also return accurate fire. This is one situation that needs resolving quickly because the first soldier to be killed who isnt wearing armour is going to open a whole new can of worms, life insurance claims etc. Who ever trialled it was either had super human strength and stamina or was on a static guard duty... think the old turtle shell body armour we got for gate guard in NI and thats the weight of it
i disagree i think its a good bit of kit, and like everything in the army it takes a bit of getting used to. yes its heavier then the old stuff but your body quickly adapts, and you can get the rifle in the shoulder as ive done it efficently enough to hit what i was aiming at. the only problem with it is the hinderence it gives you in the prone position, but even this is a workable problem.
this is a case of people with too much time on there hands over analysing stuff, and its allways marines who do the moaning .
I met the bloke who designed it (and the MK6a helmet) at the firepower demo a few weeks back and he said he was surprised how big it was compared to his original design! Just goes to show that even the guy who designs it doesn't actually get the final say on what gets produced.
I may be over simplifying this, but why don't they just issue out the old style plates that fit inside the insert and give people an element of choice?
Apparently it'll stop a 7.62AP round though...
Its not over analysing its about having the kit to do the job effectively and its not all moaning either. The new stuff weighs 30 odd pounds and when that is added to the weight of whats allready carried its about the lesser of two evils, do you sacrifice quick aggresive reaction to fire for a little bit of protection on your body. To carry out the contact drills taught on pre deployment training wearing normal CBA and then get the new stuff is a bit strange to say the least, Im not saying that it wont save lives just that different situations demand different items of kit and being able to react quickly and being able to move freely will save lives. Plus the degradation on the body when wearing this is very high so whats the answer? carry even more water which means more weight.
Serving troops will have to decide if they have been sold a Pup or not on the New Body Armour.
"When one of our Viking vehicles was shot up a few weeks back a bunch of Bergens [backpacks] were lost.
"We sent a list of the personal kit the guys had lost, and the MOD came back and were asking why anyone would need all this gear?"
Sounds a bit like the battle with the Zulus where the QMs staff reputedly couldn't open the ammunition boxes fast enough without perment damage to the 'Accountable' boxes and of course Tom paid the price.
Yes I can't spell Isandaewalla, but it was the one, a day before Rorkes Drift.
And in my day kit lost in action was not accountable. Must have been the Atlantic Conveyor sinking from being 'Overloaded' that changed the Ministries view.
Apparently a myth; the only key for opening them had been taken off by someone who had left the main group and there was only one screwdriver that was suitable or something.
Still, disgrace that the MoD sit there with such obvious disdain/ignorance to what is going on on ground
the Mk 6 helmet can and has stopped 7.62mm rounds as a young Pvt from 2LI will testify. As for the new body armour, it is heavier than the old stuff obviously but no harder to "get the rifle in the shoulder". IMO. has anyone seen the video of the american soldier who got snipered in the chest. Justifies it, no matter what the discomfort me thinks.
Whats a Pvt?
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