British soldier to face trial today

#1
Have just seen on the news that a British soldier named Kevin Williams is to face trial today over the illegal killing of an Iraqi. Can’t find a link has any one any details on the case did he do wrong or simple is he Bliars scapegoat comments please.
 
#2
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13217012,00.html

Key phrase from Tony B*Liar:

"There are rules that our soldiers abide by, and incidentally the vast majority of them do the whole time, but anyone who commits a criminal offence will be charged, as we made clear"

Nothing about, well he hasn't been convicted yet, or let's not jump to any conclusions on his guilt until all the facts are in the open!

Nope, good old Tone, might as well said "bring in the guilty b*st*rd Sargnt Maj'r"

C*nut
 
#3
I just love politicians and lawyers who know nothing about the pressures of war.

They assume we can be governed by an arrse set of ROEs and if we stray from that, they hang us out to dry.

Roll on the election :evil:
 
#5
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3634624.stm

Interesting comment by the Attorney General:

He said: "This case, which involves an alleged unlawful killing by shooting of an Iraqi citizen during the course of an arrest, was brought to my attention after charges were dismissed by the soldier's Commanding Officer.

"This meant the case could not be tried by court martial. I referred it to the CPS who asked the Metropolitan Police for assistance in collecting further evidence."
So the CO investigates under military law, finds there is no case, so the AG takes a political decision and asks the Met to investigate.

Does this not strike anyone as in any way politcally motivated, and indeed highly suspect?
 
#6
woopert said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3634624.stm

Interesting comment by the Attorney General:

"This meant the case could not be tried by court martial. I referred it to the CPS who asked the Metropolitan Police for assistance in collecting further evidence."
So the CO investigates under military law, finds there is no case, so the AG takes a political decision and asks the Met to investigate.

Does this not strike anyone as in any way politcally motivated, and indeed highly suspect?
There still has to be sufficent evidence to charge with the offence, a decison that would be in the hands of the CPS (police lost most of there charging powers at the end of last week under the criminal justice act 2003) they are supposed to be independent etc etc.

I would suspect that a british jury would be loath to convict a soldier of a murder in a war zone unless the evidence was OVERWELMING
 

FBW

Old-Salt
#7
woopert said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3634624.stm

Interesting comment by the Attorney General:

He said: "This case, which involves an alleged unlawful killing by shooting of an Iraqi citizen during the course of an arrest, was brought to my attention after charges were dismissed by the soldier's Commanding Officer.

"This meant the case could not be tried by court martial. I referred it to the CPS who asked the Metropolitan Police for assistance in collecting further evidence."
So the CO investigates under military law, finds there is no case, so the AG takes a political decision and asks the Met to investigate.

Does this not strike anyone as in any way politcally motivated, and indeed highly suspect?

Hmmmm

if the SIB cant get enough evidence (and we all know how thorough they can be)

what evidence did the met find then? Hmmmmmmm


just worried that yet again the MOD will wash their hands of him because their scared of standing up for the british squaddie
 
#8
Woopert,

Just read the same and am gob-smacked by the inference that the CO must have been covering up for his troops!

but lets all remember who the A-G is shall we!! Blairs old room mate and fellow liberal lawyer!

oh, and who is the head of the CPS - Ken MacDonald - now who would that be, oh that would be Cheri Blairs old work mate from Matrix Chambers - you all remember Matrix - there the legal firm who keep suing the MOD.

what a small world

bitter and twister - me - f*cking right i am
 
#9
What a quote from he who must be obeyed so why is it Tony that most squaddies think that you are a total cu*t. Personally it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that good old Tony validates what I do good bless you kind sir. Also I am no lawyer but if Trooper Williams CO dropped the charges how can he still to tried for the same crime what happened to the double jeopardy rule or is that only for drug dealer and other social parasites to hide behind. You can almost imagine the cross examination

laywer “The deceased was 400 meters away running, smoke was obscuring your view and you were under fire Why didn’t you shoot the weapon out of his hand”


I hope he is released promoted and given three week time share in the Algarve
 
#11
If this is not thrown out at the first opportunity then perhaps we ought to do something ? Who is paying this chaps legal costs ? Does he have legal aid ? Doubt it..it is usually reserved for the very wealthy that hide their money or 'Swampy' type toerags !

Mind you the CPS are usually rubbish...so fingers crossed he will be ok..I am sure a goor brief could annihilate the case.
 
#13
Lets hope that the case closes with egg on face for those who deserve it. Perhaps they'll think twice before doing this again.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#14
woopert said:
Interesting comment by the Attorney General:

He said: "This case, which involves an alleged unlawful killing by shooting of an Iraqi citizen during the course of an arrest, was brought to my attention after charges were dismissed by the soldier's Commanding Officer.

"This meant the case could not be tried by court martial. I referred it to the CPS who asked the Metropolitan Police for assistance in collecting further evidence."
So the CO investigates under military law, finds there is no case, so the AG takes a political decision and asks the Met to investigate.

Does this not strike anyone as in any way politcally motivated, and indeed highly suspect?
Doesn't this offend against the principle of 'double jeopardy', ie that you can't face trial for the same offence twice? If charges have been brought, and then dismissed by the CO who is acting as a summary court martial then I would have thought that the matter was dealt with.
 
#15
dui-lai said:
I just love politicians and lawyers who know nothing about the pressures of war.

They assume we can be governed by an arrse set of ROEs and if we stray from that, they hang us out to dry.

Roll on the election :evil:
When have RoEs been anything else? They're only an umbrella for the politicians just for cases like this. This way they can hang the squaddie and hide away themselves. :evil:
 
#16
thats fecking outragous.
how much more before troops are afraid to act with nasty consequences?
politiciansare all a load of grabbing fecking toerags.
please sir, can i stand down to spend more time with my family and still get MP's wages? grabbing lickspittle filching lowlife toad licing turd eatting lacking in morral back bone swamp dwelling animal abusing shite spinning cnuts the lot of em. :twisted:
 
#17
chickenpunk said:
woopert said:
Interesting comment by the Attorney General:

He said: "This case, which involves an alleged unlawful killing by shooting of an Iraqi citizen during the course of an arrest, was brought to my attention after charges were dismissed by the soldier's Commanding Officer.

"This meant the case could not be tried by court martial. I referred it to the CPS who asked the Metropolitan Police for assistance in collecting further evidence."
So the CO investigates under military law, finds there is no case, so the AG takes a political decision and asks the Met to investigate.

Does this not strike anyone as in any way politcally motivated, and indeed highly suspect?
Doesn't this offend against the principle of 'double jeopardy', ie that you can't face trial for the same offence twice? If charges have been brought, and then dismissed by the CO who is acting as a summary court martial then I would have thought that the matter was dealt with.
I don't know if he is acting as a summary courts martial though, it could just have been an internal inquiry.

I would have thought that if the CO (and probably SIB) couldn't get anything hard and fast that the CivPol would struggle as well. This seems more a political assuation of the moslem population so as not to loose votes. Many of the local immams in the UK have been calling it a crusade, and if showing the moslem community that it isn't means screwing over the life of a nieve 20 year old by accusing him of murder for doing his job, then so be it. I'm concvinced that to Herr Tony soldiers are pawns in more ways than one.

I wonder where we have seen this before? Lee Clegg does spring to mind, so I suppose it's not just the NuLab cnuts :roll:
 
#18
Ref the lee Clegg link, lets hope he and his mates weren't as stupid as Clegg and friends in terms of trying to fake evidence of injuries and agreeing a concocted story that fell apart under cross examination. :oops:

I feel very sorry for the poor guy. I hope that he is getting the best help available. Is there a fund set up to help his defence? If so can we have a link put on here so we can help (not just gob off).

Does anyone , particularly in the RTR know any more about this?
 
#19
Lawyers for the dead man's family say Mr Said was carrying a licensed handgun when he was approached by British soldiers investigating an altercation between the drivers of two cars.
So the guy was proberbly waving it all over the bloody place and pointing it at the soldiers to begin with. I'll bet some UK law firm went out to Iraq and told the family that they could make a mint from this on a no-win-no-fee basis whilst the law firm raked it in on legal aid!!
BTW. We are all paying for this out of our own pockets!
 
#20
This is probably a bit risky - but I'm going to stick my head above the parapet anyway...

Maybe this trooper is guilty of some wrong doing... He hasn't been found guilty yet - all they are doing is saying it is worth having a court case over...

a lot of people on this thread seem to be offended at the very idea that there should be any sort of independent investigation of the shooting... however soldiers are given a tremendous amount of power - they have the right to kill... along with this responsibilty there must oversight... without it standards will slip and unlawful killings will happen...

besides the obvious moral issue of it being wrong to kill innocent people... unlawful killings also hinder our attempt to end the insurgency... everytime an innocent person gets killed by us it influences others to join the insurgents... most people seem to understand this when it comes to the US bombing in urban areas but not when it comes to a SA80...



as for the this being double jeopardy... well - one possibility is that extra evidence has come forward... the CO was in the middle of an insurgency and perhaps couldn't do a complete investagtion... but even if it that isn't the case... it is clearly not ideal for the CO of a unit to be the sole decider of whether charges are brought forward... it is better for someone more independent to make this decision...

I emphasise i don't know the specifics about this case and I'm not saying he is guilty... just that if the CPS think it is worth having a court case then we have to wait and see what happens... the justice system is not completely perfect - but its pretty damn good...
 

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