British servicemen suspected of murdering Iraqi civilians

Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#2
Are we not allowed to blindfold detainees anymore then?

While it would be good to jump on the Phil Shiner bashing band wagon that normally starts on these threads the MOD/SPA haven't done themselves any favors by not providing details about certain cases, though I admit there maybe good reason such as any ongoing OPSEC concerns.

If the SPA believe there isn't enough evidence to get a conviction then what should they do, prosecute anyway and cross their fingers?

And as always I take any complaints made by Iraqi's with a pinch of salt.
 
#3
'The abuse documented by a team of lawyers led by Birmingham solicitor Phil Shiner includes 59 allegations of detainees being hooded, 11 of electric shocks, 122 of sound deprivation through the use of ear muffs, 52 of sleep deprivation, 131 of sight deprivation using blackened goggles, 39 of enforced nakedness and 18 allegations that detainees were kept awake by pornographic DVDs played on laptops.'

This is easy and should have been forseen. What we have now is the com-pen-say-shun bandwagon fully geared and rolling. No win, No fee, No truth.

They'll be demanding a 'Public Enquiry' anytime soon
 
#5
IF the quotes from the good Brigadier are true, he's doing himself, the SPA and the army no favours at all. It sounds as if those tasked with the search for justice have no grip on what is actually going on and more to the point are unconcerned about that fact. One of the main reasons for the creation of the SPA was to answer allegations that the MJS was not independent of the CofC; it didn't take too long for people to question whether it is actually fit for purpose, did it?
 
#6
And as always I take any complaints made by Iraqi's with a pinch of salt.
Hmm, they gave me a dodgy ice cream in the Shatt on TELIC 1, and I got D&V. Do you see me complaining? No. However, I might get hold of that Mr Shiner bloke and see what he has to say about it. Twos up on the proceeds Crowbag? Half of mine for half of yours?
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#7
Blindfold yes, hood no.

This is now classed as torture, how the world is changing.
I knew we weren't allowed to hood people but this quote makes it seem we can't blindfold them at all :

The abuse documented by a team of lawyers led by Birmingham solicitor Phil Shiner includes 59 allegations of detainees being hooded, 11 of electric shocks, 122 of sound deprivation through the use of ear muffs, 52 of sleep deprivation, 131 of sight deprivation using blackened goggles, 39 of enforced nakedness and 18 allegations that detainees were kept awake by pornographic DVDs played on laptops.
Sluggy it's a deal, I bought a DVD that didn't work on Telic 8 and the emotional pain is still with me to this day.
 
#8
We'll cry together man!
 
#9
Reference the allegations by Shiner, there's two possibilities:

1. That the idea of using blacked out goggles, etc has yet to be tested in a court and may well be outlawed in the future

OR

2. That the incidents he has catalogued go beyond accepted bounds and are excessive
 
#10
Reference the allegations by Shiner, there's two possibilities:

1. That the idea of using blacked out goggles, etc has yet to be tested in a court and may well be outlawed in the future

OR

2. That the incidents he has catalogued go beyond accepted bounds and are excessive
NM, pardon me for my limited knowledge, but don't you think it's just a pile of shite though and Shiner trying to get another raise?

Blacked out goggles my arrse - who had enough goggles to be able to be blacked out?
 
#11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Shiner won a single case against the MOD, or had any of his 'allegations' corroborated? It is clear that some bad things did happen in theatre (eg Baha Mousa), but to listen to some of these allegations being made, it is just laughable. Shiner is running a bandwagon in which he is netting himself a very tidy income on legal aid and making a name for himself through representing cases that are clearly baseless in nature.

Perhaps for his next trick, he'd like to sue the Iraqi Government and police service for the way that they treated prisoners? I seem to remember detainees being in near hysteria at the realisation that they were being handed over to the IPS who very definitely did do a tidy line in beatings and torture.
 
#13
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Shiner won a single case against the MOD, or had any of his 'allegations' corroborated? It is clear that some bad things did happen in theatre (eg Baha Mousa), but to listen to some of these allegations being made, it is just laughable. Shiner is running a bandwagon in which he is netting himself a very tidy income on legal aid and making a name for himself through representing cases that are clearly baseless in nature.

Perhaps for his next trick, he'd like to sue the Iraqi Government and police service for the way that they treated prisoners? I seem to remember detainees being in near hysteria at the realisation that they were being handed over to the IPS who very definitely did do a tidy line in beatings and torture.
I like that.

Tidy income, name for himself.

What do you I reckon I'd get if he helped me with my Ice Cream Case?

All jokes apart - I knew Don (Baha Mousa thingy), and in my opinion - he took one for the team. Slate me if you will - I don't care.
 
#14
Doesn't anyone read the papers?
 
#15
#16
Nope-blindfold ok although goggles preferred. Blindfold must be clear of the nostrils
 
#17
I am just a dumb civvy so does someone want to explain how blacked out goggles, ear muffs, hoods, porn and sleep deprivation amount to torture? I can understand electric shocks and nakedness, but the rest of them?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#18
NM, pardon me for my limited knowledge, but don't you think it's just a pile of shite though and Shiner trying to get another raise?

Blacked out goggles my arrse - who had enough goggles to be able to be blacked out?
Should have went to Spec-Savers.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#19
I am just a dumb civvy so does someone want to explain how blacked out goggles, ear muffs, hoods, porn and sleep deprivation amount to torture? I can understand electric shocks and nakedness, but the rest of them?
Torture? Sounds like any Friday night down Stuttgarter Platz.
 
#20
'The abuse documented by a team of lawyers led by Birmingham solicitor Phil Shiner includes 59 allegations of detainees being hooded,
Ungrateful b@stards. Burberry hoodies are the height of fashion. If they don't want 'em, give 'em back and we'll find somebody who does.


11 of electric shocks,
They were warned not to stick a knife into that toaster when they were having breakfast.


122 of sound deprivation through the use of ear muffs,
Those weren't ear muffs. They were top of the range, noise cancelling headphones provided on Legal Aid when they were being flown back to Blighty to meet with Shinner and claim asylum.


52 of sleep deprivation,
Being required to be out of your pit before noon does not constitute sleep deprivation.


131 of sight deprivation using blackened goggles,
Otherwise known as Ray-Ban Aviators. See above re ungrateful b@stards.


39 of enforced nakedness
Nakedness is normal when you're in the shower.


18 allegations that detainees were kept awake by pornographic DVDs played on laptops.'
They should have asked the other detainees to stop using the laptops when it was time for bed.

The case for the defence rests m'lud
 

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