British involvement in the pacific island hopping towards japan.

[Goldbricker]

It was Ernie Pyle who said that. Very well-known reporter at the time.

His article on Carriers - Archive » Aboard a Fighting Ship » Ernie Pyle

 

[old_fat_and_hairy]

His article on Carriers - Archive » Aboard a Fighting Ship » Ernie Pyle

Superb reporter, was in so many of the campaigns; recently read about his time during the Sicily campaign.

 

[BuggerAll]

Sorry if anyone else has mentioned him but Hollywood are not the only people who can bring a greater truth to historical situations.

 

[Goldbricker]

Superb reporter, was in so many of the campaigns; recently read about his time during the Sicily campaign.

I was always partial to this article-

Archive » The God-Damned Infantry » Ernie Pyle

Description: IU Archives Pyle with Marines on patrol in Okinawa. [audio mp3='http-//sites.mediaschool.indiana.edu/erniepyle/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2015/01/goddamnedinfantry.mp3'][/audio] IN THE FRONT LINES BE...

sites.mediaschool.indiana.edu

Now to the infantry – the God-damned infantry, as they like to call themselves.

I love the infantry because they are the underdogs. They are the mud-rain-frost-and-wind boys. They have no comforts, and they even learn to live without the necessities. And in the end they are the guys that wars can’t be won without.

 

[par avion]

He was ordered out because FDR didnt want him and his family japanese prisoners

MacArthur's personal bravery has many examples from Vera Cruz in 1914 (Where he should have been awarded the MoH) to Manila 1945.

In WW1 as a brigadier in the US 42nd Division he went along on trench raids unarmed save for a riding crop. rarely had a gas mask leading to his own gassing but strictly enforced the men carrying masks

Also in WW1 he and a tank colonel named Patton played chicken as artillery came closer until one of them finally jumped into a ditch.

At a pacific landing strip being fought over when told Japanese held the far side strolled right over to the enemy area as though immortal

Dugout Doug.

Well the boys on Baatan didn't think much about him. They even sang a little ditty about him, to the tune of 'The Battle Hym of the Republic.

Dugout Doug MacArthur lies a shaking on the Rock

Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock

Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug’s not timid, he’s just cautious, not afraid

He’s protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made

Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee

Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea

For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan

And his troops go starving on…

 

[Bardeyai]

Dugout Doug.

Well the boys on Baatan didn't think much abut him. They even sang a little ditty about him, to the tune of 'The Battle Hym of the Republic.

Dugout Doug MacArthur lies a shaking on the Rock

Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock

Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug’s not timid, he’s just cautious, not afraid

He’s protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made

Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee

Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea

For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan

And his troops go starving on…

And yet to his troops in the Rainbow Division from WW1 he was a legend for his personal bravery.

 

[Bardeyai]

And yet to his troops in the Rainbow Division from WW1 he was a legend for his personal bravery.

William Manchester goes into the subject at length in his biography (American Caesar - outstanding book). Recording examples of personal bravery from across almost half a century.
He was an arrogant, patrician SOB. I guess his troops just hated him.

 

[RandomCivvy]

Sorry if anyone else has mentioned him but Hollywood are not the only people who can bring a greater truth to historical situations.

View attachment 510141

Come to think of it... how the hell did ammo supply work when he had a 303” and his mates all have 30-06?

 

[yank_eyetie]

British POWs were rescued in the Raid at Cabanatuan:

Raid at Cabanatuan - Wikipedia

 

[Stanchion]

British POWs were rescued in the Raid at Cabanatuan:

Raid at Cabanatuan - Wikipedia

I recall reading a book by a former Royal Navy prisoner in the Philippines captured along with other sailors but I
can't for the life of me recall the name of the ship or where it was sunk. I think I might have remembered if it was Repulse/Prince of Wales or Exeter.

Edit:
May have been this chap who is on the nominal roll of those released in the Cabantuan raid.

Allan, John C., , PSX262538, British, Royal Navy

 

[Goldbricker]

Dugout Doug.

Well the boys on Baatan didn't think much abut him. They even sang a little ditty about him, to the tune of 'The Battle Hym of the Republic.

Dugout Doug MacArthur lies a shaking on the Rock

Safe from all the bombers and from any sudden shock

Dugout Doug is eating of the best food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug’s not timid, he’s just cautious, not afraid

He’s protecting carefully the stars that Franklin made

Four-star generals are rare as good food on Bataan

And his troops go starving on.

Dugout Doug is ready in his Kris Craft for the flee

Over bounding billows and the wildly raging sea

For the Japs are pounding on the gates of Old Bataan

And his troops go starving on…

If you have served you would note Soldiers tend to have black humor and are quite sarcastic.

With Patton the saying was "Blood and guts" our blood, His guts"

Clive caldwell was "Killer"

ADM Frank Fletcher "Always fueling Fletcher"

Joseph Stillwell "Vinegar Joe"

Again MacArthur was quite careful to not waste his men's lives, he had no Tarawas

 

[Goldbricker]

British POWs were rescued in the Raid at Cabanatuan:

Raid at Cabanatuan - Wikipedia

One of the 6th Ranger Bn officers on that raid later led the Son Tay POW camp raid into North Vietnam in 1970, and later as a civilian rescued some of Ross Perot's people from the Ayatollahs Iran

Arthur "Bull"Simons 3rd from viewers left front row kneeling

 

[Escape-from-PPRuNe]

The 20th Indian Division under General Gracey was sent to occupy southern French Indo China in September 1945.

In 2008 I was attending an Anglo Japanese reconciliation reception in the Japanese Embassy. I met an RASC veteran who commanded the convoy that collected the arms and ammunition to rearm French troops interned by the Japanese. His escorts were a mix of Gurkhas and Imperial Japanese Army Troops and they had to fight their way through a Viet Minh ambush on their way back. First shots in the Vietnam war?

I can't remember his name, but he had been a private soldier in 1940 driving a fuel bowser. He said he owed his life to the absence of a windscreen in his truck. When the convoy he was in was attached by German aircraft he was able to dive out through the wind screen before his bowser blew up.

Alanbrooke's diary for May 1940 mentions going to a rescheduled meeting with Gort, Ironside, and the French at an airfield that turned out to be deserted, no Frenchmen, except for a RASC bloke who was happy to see the corps commander and indeed the CIGS because they might tell him what to do with all the AVGAS he had on charge. Brooke wasn't happy about his lack of smart turnout (ffs), I forget whether he was told he could deny the fuel to the enemy.

 

[exspy]

Again MacArthur was quite careful to not waste his men's lives, he had no Tarawas

In Brute Force (1990) by John Ellis, Ellis argues that the entire Central Pacific campaign was a waste of resources and should never have been undertaken. The only reason, he says, the Americans divided their Pacific campaign between the Central Pacific (Nimitz) and the South-West Pacific (MacArthur) was because the leadership of the Army and Navy were so at odds, not even Roosevelt could get them to work together. (Ellis explains this much better and in more detail than I can.)

To accommodate each service, two theatres were created; one for the Army and one for the Navy. However, Ellis continues, the shortest route from Australia to Japan was through the Philippines, and that was the campaign the Americans should have concentrated all their resources towards. The central Pacific islands had no strategic or tactical value. But, he opined, the Navy would never have subordinated themselves to the Army in a concentrated thrust towards Japan. Hence, the Tarawas, etc.

It wasn't until after the war that a single Secretary of Defense and a Joint Chief's position was established. A compelling read.

Cheers,
Dan.

 

[Goldbricker]

British POWs were rescued in the Raid at Cabanatuan:

Raid at Cabanatuan - Wikipedia

Some Norwegians and Dutch as well. IIRC merchant seaman caught in Manila, various military as well. One British POW somehow slept through the entire raid to wake up alone in the camp the next morning. Fortunately he was noticed as missing and some Filipino Guerillas went back and got him
rescued were
464 US Soldiers, Marines and Sailors
22 British Army
3 Dutch Army
28 US Civilians
1 British civilian
1 Canadian civilian
2 Norwegian civilians

1 poor bastard died of a heart attack as a ranger carried him out the gate to freedom

 

[par avion]

If you have served you would note Soldiers tend to have black humor and are quite sarcastic.

With Patton the saying was "Blood and guts" our blood, His guts"

Clive caldwell was "Killer"

ADM Frank Fletcher "Always fueling Fletcher"

Joseph Stillwell "Vinegar Joe"

Again MacArthur was quite careful to not waste his men's lives, he had no Tarawas

There is more than enough evidence to show that in Bataan it was more than black humour and sarcasim. Pattton's glory hunting didn't make him over popular with the 3rd US Army. Especially after the pointless Lorraine campaign where the large number of dead and wounded amongst his troops. Stillwell wasn't too highly regarded by the survivors of 'Merills Mauraders'.

 

[par avion]

In Brute Force (1990) by John Ellis, Ellis argues that the entire Central Pacific campaign was a waste of resources and should never have been undertaken. The only reason, he says, the Americans divided their Pacific campaign between the Central Pacific (Nimitz) and the South-West Pacific (MacArthur) was because the leadership of the Army and Navy were so at odds, not even Roosevelt could get them to work together. (Ellis explains this much better and in more detail than I can.)

To accommodate each service, two theatres were created; one for the Army and one for the Navy. However, Ellis continues, the shortest route from Australia to Japan was through the Philippines, and that was the campaign the Americans should have concentrated all their resources towards. The central Pacific islands had no strategic or tactical value. But, he opined, the Navy would never have subordinated themselves to the Army in a concentrated thrust towards Japan. Hence, the Tarawas, etc.

It wasn't until after the war that a single Secretary of Defense and a Joint Chief's position was established. A compelling read.

Cheers,
Dan.

I thought the whole purpose of the island hopping campaign was the capture of strategic airbases to enable long range bombers to hit Japan. Hence Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa where others like Rabaul in New Britain were bypassed and left to wither on the vine.

There is an argument that the Phillipines could have been bypassed, but being an American colony and with the McArthur connection, the USA felt duty bound to recapture it, the same as we had plans to recapture Malaya and Singapore in 1945 in Operation Zipper.

 

[Mike Barton]

Perhaps the oddest thing, actually not odd at all merely ironic for the Japanese, was the utter indifference the Allies showed for the Dutch East Indies, which were after all the entire purpose of the Japanese thrust south.

The vast resources of oil, rice, rubber, iron ore, coal, bauxite etc that attracted the Japanese and which led them to attack Pearl Harbour and sweep south through SE Asia ended up being of no use to them as Allied submarines cut them off and then the huge Japanese garrison was simply left to wither on the vine as the US ignored them and swept up through the Philippines and the Pacific islands.

The Japanese need never have bothered starting the war with the West after all.

 

[Goldbricker]

There is more than enough evidence to show that in Bataan it was more than black humour and sarcasim. Pattton's glory hunting didn't make him over popular with the 3rd US Army. Especially after the pointless Lorraine campaign where the large number of dead and wounded amongst his troops. Stillwell wasn't too highly regarded by the survivors of 'Merills Mauraders'.

What was MacArthur supposed to do though?

Lend Lease had a higher priority than him and his men, that means the UK got the New and USAFFE got the dregs if even that

81mm Mortars using WW1 3inch stokes bombs fitted with sabots resulted in drop shorts

NO 60mm Mortar bombs ever sent so each rifle companies 60mm section was useless

3 Inch AA shells with condemned fuses so only some 16% detonated

WW1 Web Browning ammo belts stored in wet conditions were rotting

The units of the Philippine division armed with the Garands could not get ammo in Enblocs so had to strip it from Springfield 5 rd clips

Philippine Army armed with the US M1917 rifles had faulty brittle extractors. New ones having to be manufactured or the old ones re heat treated

Company level Anti tank defence was the Mle 1916 37mm gun, Some 75mm M1897 guns used for A/T work as towed or on the M3GMC Halftrack

Philippine Army seriously lacking in basics like steel pots and even barracks, tentage. Company grade officers almost non existent. Hurriedly transported US Army reserve officers sent to lead them.

Entire USAFFE on 1/2 rations from the beginning and then having to also feed and medicate thousands of civilian refugees allowed through the lines into Bataan

the entire defence plan was predicated on holding out for 6 months until the US Pacific fleet arrived

 

[Escape-from-PPRuNe]

One British POW somehow slept through the entire raid to wake up alone in the camp the next morning.

He's our boy