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British guns used against Nato forces in Afghanistan

#2
"we are confident that there are not significant or widespread problems with the delivery chain.”

Good one, Mr MoD spokesman; does that mean it's OK as long as they don't get ammo as well? Fifty-bloody-nine guns?!
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
That is VERY interesting.

About a year ago, I was talking to an American chum who is a military contractor with US forces in Kandahar. He told me of how the British had lost a load of weapons, which were then used against US forces. A US Battalion commander getting into a yelling match with a British battalion commander. (And I don't blame the Yank, in this case) My friend did not know details (he was working with SEALs, not infantry or marine units) and I was not sure if it was true.

Now, it seems to be coming to light.

My friend's understanding was that a postion was lost or abandoned, and the weapons were taken therefrom. What an almighty embarrasment.

Be interesting to see how this turns out. If heads don't roll, I suspect they should.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Somebody on here a while back linked to a web site where a buyer reportedly in Pakistan had an A2
He had paid about $12000 IIRC
He also took the pictures down sharpish when people from here started asking questions about it
 
#6
If you discount the fact that this was a shipment of weapons its **** all compared to the epic quantities of material that fall into the logistical tail vortex. No one is exempt from this and the fact that the american love their "stuff" and have massive amounts of stuff moving around means they are probably the biggest contributor to the "Lost kit" party
 
#7
Somebody on here a while back linked to a web site where a buyer reportedly in Pakistan had an A2
He had paid about $12000 IIRC
He also took the pictures down sharpish when people from here started asking questions about it
Didnt the experts on here think it was a reconditioned one from the feild as apposed to stolen/"bought as new". Some thing to do with it having A1 bits as well as A2 bits.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Didnt the experts on here think it was a reconditioned one from the feild as apposed to stolen/"bought as new". Some thing to do with it having A1 bits as well as A2 bits.
There was quite a debate about that
However as soon as questioned where asked he took everything down about it
Funny quite a few Yanks on the original forum thread turned on some of the guys from here that where asking the questions

Fact still went unanswered as to how he got his hands on it even as an A1/A2 recon

Maybe if they'd let them get to the bottom of it some of the questions might have been answered
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
That is VERY interesting.

About a year ago, I was talking to an American chum who is a military contractor with US forces in Kandahar. He told me of how the British had lost a load of weapons, which were then used against US forces. A US Battalion commander getting into a yelling match with a British battalion commander. (And I don't blame the Yank, in this case) My friend did not know details (he was working with SEALs, not infantry or marine units) and I was not sure if it was true.

Now, it seems to be coming to light.

My friend's understanding was that a position was lost or abandoned, and the weapons were taken therefrom. What an almighty embarrassment.

Be interesting to see how this turns out. If heads don't roll, I suspect they should.
It would have had to have been quite some abandoned position to yield 59 Minimis! now a container load being nicked, maybe as far back ago as last year, and not being publicly admitted to until now (for bloody good reasons) I can understand. Anyway, I think we would have heard something if a position was overrun like that, somehow!

The Yanks cannot talk though - they have lost entire vehicles, many HummVees were stolen a couple of years ago. This is only to be expected, given the nature of the supply lines there...
 
#10
While agreeing with the general 'heads should roll' thoughts, I'd just like to ask who suppied weapons and training to the Taliban a few years ago when the Russians were having a go and how come they have Soviet anti-aircraft missiles and guns, and more to the point, trained gunners to use them?
 
#11
While agreeing with the general 'heads should roll' thoughts, I'd just like to ask who suppied weapons and training to the Taliban a few years ago when the Russians were having a go and how come they have Soviet anti-aircraft missiles and guns, and more to the point, trained gunners to use them?
My bold

That would be the UK, USA & others
 
#12
It would have had to have been quite some abandoned position to yield 59 Minimis! now a container load being nicked, maybe as far back ago as last year, and not being publicly admitted to until now (for bloody good reasons) I can understand. Anyway, I think we would have heard something if a position was overrun like that, somehow!

The Yanks cannot talk though - they have lost entire vehicles, many HummVees were stolen a couple of years ago. This is only to be expected, given the nature of the supply lines there...
Given the current scaleing of wpn to troops, this was most certainly not an overrun position. That and the minor fact that we have not had a position or UK callsign over run, leads me to think that the "US contractor" was similar to one I had the misfortune to deal with not 2 weeks ago, who takes the description "walt" and super charges it, and makes it pan galactic.

IF they were ours, then they came out of the supply chain. Given the fragility of the route in, if they came by land then its believable.
 
#13
My bold

That would be the UK, USA & others
Equipping the country against another country doesn't have a democratic government and that invaded one of its neighbours in an unprovoked war of aggression killing over a million people . I hope no one is sggesting moral equivielence ?

Just to add how does an army lose 59 infantry support weapons and no one noticed ? It's an honest question because it needs an honest answer
 
#15
Equipping the country against another country doesn't have a democratic government and that invaded one of its neighbours in an unprovoked war of aggression killing over a million people . I hope no one is sggesting moral equivielence ?

Just to add how does an army lose 59 infantry support weapons and no one noticed ? It's an honest question because it needs an honest answer
That's the really easy part. When I was last there a convoy (Pakistan to Kandahar, along the M1) being escorted by a PSC (who shall remain nameless) came under attack, the PSC were beaten off by insurgents, and the convoy and all it's contents captured. Strangely, there wasn't a mark on any of the PSC escorts or even a bullet hole in any of their vehicles. The drivers and their, by now empty, Artics were subsequently found safe and sound.

Business as usual in Afghanistan!!!!!
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Equipping the country against another country doesn't have a democratic government and that invaded one of its neighbours in an unprovoked war of aggression killing over a million people . I hope no one is sggesting moral equivielence ?

Just to add how does an army lose 59 infantry support weapons and no one noticed ? It's an honest question because it needs an honest answer
Didn't we invade in an act of unprovoked aggresion?

You'd be suprised how much kit get lost I'd be interested to see how much kit has been lost in the UK over the last couple of years
 
#17
Didn't we invade in an act of unprovoked aggresion?

You'd be suprised how much kit get lost I'd be interested to see how much kit has been lost in the UK over the last couple of years
Nope . America asked Mullah Omar head of the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden and his cohorts . They refused so NATO and UN legislation was used in order to legally invade the country . I'm guessing you were being flippant

Thanks for the point about stuff going missing Syrup ( And how it disappears in the Kyber Pass ACAB ) I was just wondering what he reaction at the MOD might have been ? Picture this scene during basic training

Recruit : Bit of bad news Sergeant . I've lost my helmet

Sergeant : YOU FCKING MONG . I'll tell you what's gonna happen - we're gonna stick you in the guardroom and drill you to death until you remember where you left your helmet

Would I be correct in thinking this contrasts elsewhere in the mlitary ?

Civvy Auditor : Oh dear . We lost 59 minimis .

MOD Bigwig : Well these things happen . Well just have to buy some more and hope they don't get stolen by theocratic nutters
 
#19
“We always take the care and maintenance of our equipment extremely seriously, which is why we have procedures in place to protect against the loss of assets in what continues to be a busy and complex operational environment. Whilst acknowledging the seriousness of this incident, we are confident that there are not significant or widespread problems with the delivery chain.”
OED: Confident feeling or showing confidence, self assured, assured, bold, trusting.

B
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Nope . America asked Mullah Omar head of the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden and his cohorts . They refused so NATO and UN legislation was used in order to legally invade the country . I'm guessing you were being flippant

Thanks for the point about stuff going missing Syrup ( And how it disappears in the Kyber Pass ACAB ) I was just wondering what he reaction at the MOD might have been ? Picture this scene during basic training

Recruit : Bit of bad news Sergeant . I've lost my helmet

Sergeant : YOU FCKING MONG . I'll tell you what's gonna happen - we're gonna stick you in the guardroom and drill you to death until you remember where you left your helmet

Would I be correct in thinking this contrasts elsewhere in the mlitary ?

Civvy Auditor : Oh dear . We lost 59 minimis .

MOD Bigwig : Well these things happen . Well just have to buy some more and hope they don't get stolen by theocratic nutters

Yes I was a bit :)

Totally agree I think with your second point
A quick google brings this up

MoD has 'lost' 165 pistols, rifles and machine guns... and 27,000 rounds of ammunition
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 1:12 PM on 2nd March 2009
Comments (1) Add to My Stories
More than 165 pistols, rifles and machine guns have been lost by or stolen from the Armed Forces in the past three years.
Figures obtained using the Freedom of Information Act also show that more than 27,000 bullets have gone missing during the same period.
It means an average of 56 guns were stolen or lost in each of the past three years - whereas around 20 weapons were stolen or lost every year during the previous decade.
Last night the Conservatives and anti-gun groups criticised the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for losing track of weapons.
Missing: The SA80 assault rifle can fire 30 bullets in five seconds and is lethal at up to half a mile
Shadow Secretary of State for Defence, Dr Liam Fox, said: 'The MoD needs to tighten up security.
'These lost or stolen guns must not end up in criminal hands.'

The lost haul includes a number of high-velocity SA80 automatic assault rifles that can fire off 30 rounds in five seconds and are lethal from up to a kilometre away.
It also includes Browning 9mm pistols. Both weapons are standard issue weapon of the British Armed Forces.
In December 2007, the MoD revealed the gun used to shoot WPC Rachael Bown, 24, in the stomach in Nottingham in 2006, had been stolen from the Army.
The Browning 9mm pistol used in the attack had been stolen from a British military base or smuggled by troops from Afghanistan or Iraq and sold to thugs by a soldier.
The National Ballistics Intelligence Programme, the agency charged with tracking firearms around the country, has launched an investigation into how the gun ended up on the streets.
Paula Ogunboro set up campaign group Mothers Against Guns after her son Eugene, 25, was shot dead at a party in Toxteth, Liverpool, in 2003.
Mrs Ogunboro, from Liverpool, whose son was killed by a gun which was stolen from members of a shooting club, said: 'It is appalling to think so many guns have gone missing from the Armed Forces.
Ammo: More than 27,000 rounds of ammunition has gone missing in the past three years

WPC Rachael Bown was killed by a gun stolen from the Armed Forces
'This is an unbelievably large amount of deadly weapons which could easily fall into criminal hands and kill people.
'Eugene was shot by a stolen gun which found its way to Liverpool. Stolen weapons cause an untold amount of suffering for families.
'The military should be able to account for all its weapons. How on Earth do guns and bullets get stolen? Weapons should be under lock and key when not in use.
'The Armed Forces should be protecting us rather than losing deadly weapons. In no circumstances should a weapon ever go missing.'

The latest figures reveal the Armed Forces lost 35 pistols, 43 rifles and six machine guns between January 2006 and December 2008.
A total of 39 pistols, 42 rifles and three machine guns were stolen during the same period.
The military also recorded 29,283 bullets stolen and 17,022 bullets lost over the three years period. It managed to recover 19, 042 of these bullets.
The MoD refused to reveal how many of these weapons or bullets were lost or stolen from home or how many were lost or stolen from units serving overseas.
Last year, three soldiers were jailed for a total of 28 years after taking huge quantities of explosives from a British Army barracks in Canterbury, Kent.
Colour Sergeant Garry Graham, 37, Lance Corporal Martyn Fitzsimmons, 28, and Sergeant Kieran Campbell, 27, took a massive cache of weapons including plastic explosives and grenades to sell to druglords.
All three soldiers from Glasgow had been serving members of the 5th Battalion the Royal Regiment of Scotland stationed in Canterbury, Kent.
Between 2000 and 2007, a total of 109 guns were lost or stolen from military barracks in Britain. Only 35 weapons have been recovered.
Of the 200 guns that went missing between 1997 and 2006, 30 were antique rifles taken from the walls of officers messes.
An MoD spokesman said: 'The Ministry of Defence takes every reasonable precaution to ensure all weapons are controlled and stored securely.
'Comprehensive records are maintained to enable accurate accounting and are subject to both regular and spot checks.
'We also have specific operations designed to deter those personnel from all three services who may be tempted to illegally import items and also to identify those who transgress.
'This includes a combined information campaign and a physical search of all equipment including personal baggage, etc returning to peacetime locations.
'All security measures are subject to continuous review, security surveys and audits


Read more: MoD has 'lost' 165 pistols, rifles and machine guns... and 27,000 rounds of ammunition | Mail Online
 

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