British government has collapsed

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Tazzers, Jun 3, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Or has it? It is a very bold statement and I don't know how close to the truth it is but it has been made in this Mail Online article by Peter Oborne:


    I don't know how credible this bloke is or even the rag he works for but it is an interesting statement to consider.

    Lets argue for the moment that it is true and British government really has collapsed. We still get up in the morning and go to work. As stretched, underfunded and as burdened by pointless bureaucracy as they are the military, police, health service, schools, fire service et al still function and under the circumstances still do a superb job. British society is so far still intact and we haven't yet taken to the streets and trashed the neighbourhood. In fact the only real blow is gargantuan public debt and a big hit in international standing. Okay those last points aren't small ones but hopefully you get my point.

    Which is this.

    If central government has collapsed is it now an anachronism? Does British society function in spite of rather than because of central or even local government? If all of the pieces that make us tick are in place and robust enough to function, is government tinkering and interfering rather than ensuring its continued smooth operation? Have we outgrown government?

    Without going into any detail about why I think the Monarchy should remain other than to say that when all is taken into account I think that they cost far less than they earn for the country as a whole. Okay maybe they do nothing for the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders etc but that is a question these countries need to pose and answer for themselves, we have no say in their constitutional future, but for Britain the monarchy remains an important figurehead whilst the importance of government seems to be slipping away.

    Okay the problem with this argument is that we still need a good government, by the people, of the people or else when we or our interests are threatened, who will have the authority to mobilise the military or fight our corner on the world stage?

    Well lets be blunt, this government seem very at ease with itself ordering men and women into harms way but can't seem to fight our corner very effectively at all.

    I think Parliament needs to be dissolved and I think we need a general election at the earliest and by earliest I mean sometime last year.

    Sorry. I'm up all night I'm afraid and need a break between sessions with a rather good book.
  2. I'd say that amongst many in the UK the standing of this Government seems to be VERY low.

    Outside of the UK.... well, let's be honest if you were talking to a group of people representing their countries, and one was a dead man walking (with claims of false expense claims, etc.) how much credibility would you give him? Would he be worth cultivating as a future contact or friend?
  3. This is a difficult issue. It is true that we have not taken to the streets to murder politicians, bankers and stockbrokers even although we have obviously been sitting on a powderkeg for some time. It is not true that the PM is worse than useless. Compared to Tony Blair, he seems to me to have some advantages. IMHO he does respond to criticism, he does have the normal range of emotions, and he has a brain that can deal with figures. On the down side, he made errors while he was Chancellor, and his party still has too many Blair supporters who may not be co-operating with him. Now that there is a campaign to scrutinise all politician's expenses, it might be best for him to go with the flow and call a general election. The alternative is to wait until his own expenses are looked at; you can guarantee that if they are out by so much as a penny, the mob will be braying for his head, and as CF says, no-one will then take him seriously.
  4. The Daily Mail is a tabloid rag with pretentions but the writer is correct: Brown has a mild case of Asbergers Syndrome and is suited to a geeky back office tekkie role: never up to a big public job and always clear that anybody with his personality traits would be a disaster as PM.
    But never mind them, just have a look what The Guardian (Labour House newspaper) has to say. Another dead man walking and a dead government walking for that matter. Unless he is forced out soon he will just head for the bunker with his few remaining cronies and hope it all somehow gets better. Harridan Harman is putting a brave face on it but he is doomed.

    Gordon Brown: Labour's dilemma

    "Grandstanding on his claims to good intentions, the prime minister demands the right to carry on, even as the cabinet implodes around him. The home secretary, the chancellor, and perhaps even the foreign secretary may go, and Labour faces its worst defeat in its history on Thursday, but the prime minister does not recognise his direct responsibility for the mayhem.

    The truth is that there is no vision from him, no plan, no argument for the future and no support. The public see it. His party sees it. The cabinet must see it too, although they are not yet bold enough to say so. The prime minister demands loyalty, but that has become too much to ask of a party, and a country, that was never given the chance to vote for him. "
  5. old_fat_and_hairy

    old_fat_and_hairy LE Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    There is an element of me, a very,very small and well-hidden element, that feels ever so slightly sorry for Gordon Brown. The sleaze of the cabinet, the lack of talent and inabilities of them are something he inherited. Ok, I know he stamped his foot, and threatened to 'Thcweam and thcweam until I am sick' much like Violet-Elizabeth Bott, until he was given his present, the prime job. But, let us not ever forget that the mastermind behind the scams, the Mr Big, the Subject Matter Expert on creaming off monies from gullible taxpayers, the whizzkid of claims was Mr Blair, ably aided and abetted by the Wide-Mouthed Frog.

    This is a man whose paper trail was "accidentally shredded", yet he and his consort were the undoubted masters of dodgy claims, expense fiddles and general nest-feathering. I would be fascinated if somehow his true expense paperwork were to surface. It would make the best seller list (fiction) for sure.
  6. I don't think the Government has collapsed just yet, yes it's accelerating towards collapse, but this is nothing compared to what is to come. If you think this is bad, wait for next Monday morning when the full results of the Euro elections are in. That's when the real collapse will take place - a disastrous showing in the polls, a cabinet reshuffle of the talentless, a press baying for blood and a public pleading for a General Election now.
  7. Nice to hear William Hague getting in on the act on Radio 4 last night saying it was collapsing around Brown's ears. Always liked him.

    Glad you said it first. I felt some very tiny stirrings of that this morning watching him on the telly. Charisma vacuum aside, he does seem a bit unlucky.

    Still, I voted Tory in the local elections, and now have occasional micro-pangs of regret. When it comes down to it, it seems I prefer my elected politicians more ostentatious in their fraud than the common or garden variety. Duck mansions [and high class hookers]* for everyone, hurrah!

    *I made that bit up, but there's no sense in being cheap.
  8. It's an interesting point, though. Is government necessary to the functioning of society? Or is the continuing of daily life just social inertia working its way through to a natural conclusion?

    I'm reminded of a story about a Chinese mandarin writing in the early 1300s to a friend. Almost as an afterthought, he added his surprise at finding out the Song Dynasty had collapsed and the country now seemed to be ruled by the Yuan.

    The Song Dynasty had fallen some some 30 years previously and a good 8 before he passed the civil service entrance exams. Nobody had thought it important enough to tell him in all that time.
  9. old_fat_and_hairy

    old_fat_and_hairy LE Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    I agree with your hurrah. It seems somehow classier than claiming for bathpugs and porn film. I long for the days of Keeler and Rice-Davies. I find I can be more understanding and forgiving over those indiscretions than the cheap and tacky Labour ones.
  10. I think the poor bast4rd should have been prescribed porn on the National Health. Can you imagine the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach realising that howler was coming back to Brum for the week-end and may require servicing? Enough to make any sane man go limp.
  11. "lost the moral authority to govern", something even Mr Major never managed.
  12. no freedom of information act so there indiscretions remained secret.
    think brown needs to go wasn't voted for so can't really expect loyalty.

    too many MP's believe there Special and deserve privileges.
    there are servants and should start acting like it.
    strangely nobody from any of the main parties has dared to make an appearance on my estate would probably vote for them cause at least they showed balls :twisted:

    otherwise its a toss up between the greens and ukip
  13. Noone takes him seriously now... :roll:
  14. NO, because he didn't gain it in the first place. I mean, doing the dirty on Jean - with Edwina!!
  15. I sometimes have nightmares about the Major-Currie sticky fumbling twosome as their Spitting Image puppets, and it's sick, SICK I tells ya.