Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by JoeCivvie, Oct 28, 2009.
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Typical French gratitude.
Need I say anything about cheese eating surrender monkeys.....?
At least the Noggies send us a Christmas tree every year as thanks for our help in WW2 . All the French send us are illegal immigrants they can't be bothered to do anything with.
Yeah, nothing wrong with keeping SOE spies in an already liberated part of the country to report on what was happening in France then. A little HUMINT could not harm in helping London to decide how Europe would be shaped after WW2 I suppose.
Just another allied attempt, after the AMGOT scheme, at keeping France under control.
Thank God Le Grand Charles told him to pack his gear and go back home.
As for lack of gratitude, he received the Croix de Guerre from France for his wartime accomplishments.
Another attempt at shit stirring by the "reference' BBC.....
Well as France had demonstrated once before WWII, they couldn't keep the Jerries out and everyone could see that Russia would be the next across the border possibly 20years later. Of course we wanted to recce the place out so we could divide it all up between countries who knew how to stand and fight, as opposed to letting it fall again.
How to stand and fight, you mean like in Singapore ?
Talking about recce, he was probably looking for good beaches to evacuate the next BEF, a la Dunkerque....see it's easy, everybody can do that...
Easier to collaborate
de Gaulle was a bastard, but he was a French bastard first and foremost and kept the faith when many did not.I personally think he was an ungrateful Anglophobe, but he almost single handedly laid the foundation for French independence post W.W.2,and if I was French I would want to make him a saint!
Okay i will give you that one.
However we have a lot more to point out to you.
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]
- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.
- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
- The Dutch War
- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu
- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.
Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.
Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.
1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.
Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.
French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):
1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.
St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.
Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.
de Gaulle, an anglophobe ? I don't think so. He could see clearly whenever people tried to shaft him (like the USA keeping an ambassador to Vichy until the end of 1943 to sideline him or the allies not telling him of the Torch landings in French North Africa in 1942 or of the D-Day landing in France in June 1944) and he made it plain he was not amused.
Here is an abstract from a speech he made in Westminster in April 1960. One could hardly be more complimentary towards the UK.
Aujourd'hui, ma prÃ©sence parmi vous atteste au peuple de Grande-Bretagne que le peuple franÃ§ais lui a vouÃ© pour toujours son amitiÃ© et son admiration. AssurÃ©ment, ce sont vos qualitÃ©s nationales profondes qui ont Ã©tÃ© les principales causes de vos succÃ¨s mais, dans votre rÃ©ussite, pour combien a comptÃ© aussi la valeur de vos institutions ? Aux pires moments, qui donc chez vous contesta la lÃ©gitimitÃ© et l'autoritÃ© de l'Etat ? Aujourd'hui, Ã Westminster, je tiens Ã rendre Ã l'Angleterre cet hommage dans ce domaine comme dans d'autres : sÃ»rs de vous-mÃªmes, sans presque en avoir l'air, vous pratiquez, dans la libertÃ©, un rÃ©gime solide et stable. Si fortes que sont chez vous la tradition, la loyautÃ©, la rÃ¨gle du jeu, que votre gouvernement est dotÃ© tout naturellement de cohÃ©sion et de durÃ©e, que votre Parlement a, au long de chaque lÃ©gislature, une majoritÃ© assurÃ©e, que ce gouvernement et ce Parlement s'accordent en permanence ; bref, que vos pouvoirs exÃ©cutif et lÃ©gislatif s'Ã©quilibrent et collaborent en quelque sorte par dÃ©finition. Depuis 1940, l'Angleterre a traversÃ© les plus graves vicissitudes de son Histoire. Eh bien, ce sont seulement quatre hommes d'Etat : mes amis Sir Winston Churchill, Lord Attlee, Sir Anthony Eden et Monsieur Harold Mac Millan qui ont conduit vos affaires pendant ces 20 extraordinaires annÃ©es. Bref, dÃ©pourvus de textes constitutionnels minutieusement agencÃ©s, mais en vertu d'un irrÃ©cusable consentement gÃ©nÃ©ral, vous pratiquez votre rÃ©gime dans l'Ã©quilibre et dans la sagesse, et vous assurez, en chaque occasion, le bon rendement de la dÃ©mocratie. Eh bien, c'est cette Angleterre-lÃ : cette Angleterre trÃ¨s sÃ»re d'elle-mÃªme, trÃ¨s en norme et faisant cependant respecter chez elle la libertÃ© de tous ! C'est cette Angleterre-lÃ qui inspire confiance Ã la France devant les problÃ¨mes si vastes et si rudes que notre temps pose Ã l'univers, sous la menace permanente que suspendent au-dessus de l'espÃ¨ce humaine des moyens de destruction gigantesques et instantanÃ©s, et en prÃ©sence du grand courant qui semble porter vers la dÃ©tente les masses et les hommes d'Etat. Mon pays se tourne vers le vÃ´tre par instinct et par raison : il considÃ¨re qu'Anglais et FranÃ§ais, assurÃ©s de ce qu'ils valent mais Ã l'abri du vertige qui parfois entraÃ®ne les colosses et qu'eux-mÃªmes ont naguÃ¨re Ã©prouvÃ©, sont faits pour travailler ensemble, pour agir ensemble afin d'aider Ã construire la paix.
brilliant post Nutter
yes , just like defending a port on the other side of the world is like jacking in and giving up your homeland to the nazis, just the same...
Just happened to Google "Famous French Victories" and lo and behold the following came up on my screen:
Your search - Famous French Military Victories - did not match any documents. Did you mean: Infamous French Surrenderings. No standard web pages containing ...
www.gooogie.co.uk/?...Famous%20French%20Military%20Victories - Cached - Similar
I do like this bit of sh1t stirring below . French forces had to reassert and reinvent history, otherwise it would have been an invaision of a collaboratory power.
Bet De Gaulle felt annoyed that his 1944 government's legitamacy was dependant on the largesse of an Englishman (WSC)?
France's rendezvous with history
Earlier this week, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said his country would end four decades of self-imposed isolation and return to Nato's military command.
Here, the BBC's Allan Little reflects on France's long journey to reconcile itself with one of the darkest chapters in its history and its difficult relationship with the US and the UK.
There is a story about a conversation between General de Gaulle, who, as president of the French Republic, telephoned his American counterpart Lyndon B Johnson, to inform him that France had decided to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty alliance.
Since its foundation nearly two decades earlier, Nato had had its headquarters in France. Now Nato would have to move.
Furthermore, de Gaulle added, it was his intention that all American service personnel should be removed from French soil.
"Does that include," Johnson is said to have replied, "those buried in it?"
But go to the cemeteries of Normandy and you see what an Anglo-Saxon business the D-Day landings - and the liberation of France - really were.
The historian Andrew Roberts has calculated that of the 4,572 allied servicemen who died on that day on which, in retrospect, so much of human history seems now to have pivoted - only 19 were French. That is 0.4%.
â France, he said, had made peace with Germany... but it could never - never - forgive the British and Americans for the liberation â
Of the rest, 37 were Norwegians, and one was Belgian. The rest were from the English speaking world - two New Zealanders, 13 Australians, 359 Canadians, 1,641 Britons and, most decisively of all, 2,500 Americans.
After the disastrous Suez crisis in 1956, it fell to Harold Macmillan as UK prime minister to move Britain from the Age of Empire to the Age of Europe.
But his attempts to take the United Kingdom into what was then called the Common Market fell foul of General de Gaulle's famous vetoes.
Twice Monsieur Non listened politely to Britain's plea, and twice he slammed the door.
De Gaulle saw in British membership the Trojan Horse of American imperialism in Europe.
After Algeria won its independence from France in the early 1960s, de Gaulle was fond of saying that he had not granted freedom to one country only to sit by and watch France lose its independence to the Americans.
Macmillan, in old age, spoke ruefully of France's almost psychotic relationship with its Anglo-Saxon allies.
France, he said, had made peace with Germany, had forgiven Germany for the brutality of invasion and the humiliation of four years of occupation, but it could never - never - forgive the British and Americans for the liberation.
French anti-Americanism has a long pedigree. The 18th Century philosophers of the European Enlightenment believed the New World to be self evidently inferior.
They spoke - and wrote, prolifically - of the degeneration of plant and animal life in America.
They believed America had emerged from the ocean millennia after the old continents; and that accounted for the cultural inferiority of civilisations that tried to plant themselves there.
I was living in Paris when France celebrated the 60th anniversary of its liberation.
I went to the beaches of Normandy on the 60th anniversary of D-Day and watched veterans assembling one last time, old men, heads held high, marching past blown up photographs of themselves as young liberators.
France's ambivalence - the same neurosis that Harold MacMillan spoke of - was evident.
Paris launched a series of events to mark the 60th anniversary of its own liberation in August 2004.
The city's mayor had given the celebrations the title Paris Se Libere! - Paris Liberates Herself!
One of the newspapers published a 48-page commemorative issue. There was no mention of the allies until page 18.
Building a myth
An English friend of mine, in town that weekend, had remarked how empty Paris felt in August, the month the city empties out as its residents head for their annual sojourn in the countryside.
"I see," he said "that Paris was liberated in August. I guess the Parisians didn't find out about it till September, when they came back."
Again - ouch. The caustic Anglo-Saxon wit stings.
It stings because the tale that France told itself after the war was built around a lie. Paris se libere.
The words were first spoken by de Gaulle himself at the Hotel de Ville on the evening of 25 August 1944.
Paris had been liberated by her own people, he declared, "with the help of the armies of France, with the help and support of the whole of France, that is to say of fighting France, the true France, the eternal France."
France knew, in its heart, even in 1944, that that was not true. It took until the 1980s for a generation of historians properly to re-examine the darkest chapter of France's 20th Century history.
When I was living in Paris, it struck me that Sarkozy - not yet president - had the potential to be France's first post-Gaullist leader.
His enemies called him "Sarkozy the American" in the hope that this would make him unelectable. It did not work.
And now he has taken his country back into the Atlanticist fold.
It seems to me another step in a long journey, in which France - in its mature, disputatious, entrenched democracy - is growing reconciled to the history that is now challenging the myths.
From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 14 March, 2009 at 1130 GMT on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service
Why would they need him to be there Gaulle was correct to send him home
After all it's a known fact that by September 1947 exept for two slappers who slept with Germans almost all Frenchmen and women had served in the resistance during the war
Since 99.98% of the country was running around in Berets with bayonets stuck down their strides there was fukc all for a Brit officer to do
Vive De Gaullle
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