British Forces Are Terroists In Iraq?

#1
Was watching Question Time last night, one of the subjects that came up was the group Hamas- basically a terroist group. The people that condone the killing of jews..like the Nazis in the 1940s.

A women in the audience made a comment along the lines of how basically the British forces in Iraq are terroists, by killing many Iraqi civilians, so how can we call hamas terroists, when British troops are doing the same.

She then started saying it was an illegal war and got angry, looked like she was going to cry.

Now the thing that angered me the most, was the fact she was a white British female, calling us terroists for killing Iraqi civilians...WHF, is wrong with some of these people?

She was an ugly bint aswell, maybe shed been turned down a shag by too many servicemen.
 
#2
Same shoite different year, the majority of Iraqi's killed in Iraq are killed by other Iraqi"s just like the majority of catholics killed in Northern Ireland were done so by the IRA. These hand wringers never let facts get in the way of a political point. Did anyone point out that car, Ied and suicide bombing are not part of our RoE.
 
#3
I think the majority of the public see the war as an illegal war, and with that your gonna go one way or the other:

1. Your gonna blame Bliar/Broon, but feel sorry for the troops, support them fully and want them home, cos you know they are only doing what they've been told.
or
2. Your gonna blame Bliar/Broon/Troops for it all, stick them all in the same box assuming all troops chose to go to war and they're enjoying it.

The majority of the public (including myself before my partner joined) were very uneducated on the forces. People just dont know or understand what you go through.

Terrorists dont play by the rules, unfortunatly British soldiers have to.
 
#4
We are in a foreign country - you would see a foreign army in England/scotland/wales/ireland as an aggressive terror force, wouldn't you? And I for one would be fighting them...... that scares me a bit as I can see their point to an extent!
 
#5
We are in a foreign country - you would see a foreign army in England/scotland/wales/ireland as an aggressive terror force, wouldn't you? And I for one would be fighting them...... that scares me a bit as I can see their point to an extent!
Hopefully not, becaause that would make me a stupid tool of the jihadists. A better question to ask is why the Iraqis see us an agressive terror force, when 2 non-muslim nations we trashed completely, then occupied for years (in one case after nuking 2 of their cities), both came to see us as a chance to part with the past, and became economic power houses.

Germany - Christian - no lunatic reaction.

Japan - Shintoist/other - no lunatic reaction.

Iraq: ah - er, well, it's all our fault, isn't it? No it isn't.
 
#6
Stars and stripes, published the other day announced that isaf forces this year have killed 341 civilians the Taliban have killed 279,you can see where these people get their idea's from.Reading that statement has to get you questioning our credability in the eye's of the civilian world.
 
#7
Germany- Defeated and scared sh*tless of the Russians arriving.

Japan - Made to glow in the dark and humiliated. They started it too.

No comparison.

Iraq - Nation of proud Arabs, possibly the most intelligent Arabic nation per capita thanks to Saddam's free education programmes. Ritually humiliated by not being fully involved in the rebuilding of their own country, unlike Japan and Germany. Watching life deteriorate under the 'liberation' , busy blaming us for breaking it and not mending it.

Especially as the "free and democratically elected government" are busy playing both ends against the middle , while the corrupt and self serving individuals within, line their own nests politically and financially.

Which is why we had Military occupation governments in both cases, not try to rush through democracy and empower the most corrupt vultures we could find to buy oil from.
 
#8
You can't really cite Germany and Japan as examples because they probably felt the same way as the Iraqis do at the time. 60 years on is a completely different situation.
 
#9
botfeckid...

Iraq was a sovereign country when invaded. SH may have been an evil and cruel dictator but the reason, the legality of going to war is in deep question.

The USA and Britain made the UN look useless and inefective - and in a nutshell the UN is a farce now and not to be taken seriously.

One thing is far and completely different compared to our, western, way of perception. You look at a map and see countries, borders and perimeters. Arabs do not look at it that way. The arabian people (note, no nationality) see an arab nation, their home invaded and feel the urge to protect their home.

Like I said before, if I saw an armed force in my country, imposing laws upon me to which I cannot agree or disagree and a puppet government in place I would be on the streets. This makes the statement true that the Iraqis (or all arabs) see the coalition as an invader and the memory of Richard the Lionheart galloping around those parts is far more relevant in arab history and doctrine.

This is my (educated) opinion. It's ok for you to disagree.... just think before you wizz off a shallow comment as an answer inbetween your toast and tea!
 
#10
PartTimePongo said:
Germany- Defeated and scared sh*tless of the Russians arriving.

Japan - Made to glow in the dark and humiliated. They started it too.

No comparison.

Iraq - Nation of proud Arabs, possibly the most intelligent Arabic nation per capita thanks to Saddam's free education programmes. Ritually humiliated by not being fully involved in the rebuilding of their own country, unlike Japan and Germany. Watching life deteriorate under the 'liberation' , busy blaming us for breaking it and not mending it.

Especially as the "free and democratically elected government" are busy playing both ends against the middle , while the corrupt and self serving individuals within, line their own nests politically and financially.

Which is why we had Military occupation governments in both cases, not try to rush through democracy and empower the most corrupt vultures we could find to buy oil from.
Spot on PTP
Best summary I have seen so far
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
Germany- Defeated and scared sh*tless of the Russians arriving.

Japan - Made to glow in the dark and humiliated. They started it too.

No comparison.

Iraq - Nation of proud Arabs, possibly the most intelligent Arabic nation per capita thanks to Saddam's free education programmes. Ritually humiliated by not being fully involved in the rebuilding of their own country, unlike Japan and Germany. Watching life deteriorate under the 'liberation' , busy blaming us for breaking it and not mending it.

Especially as the "free and democratically elected government" are busy playing both ends against the middle , while the corrupt and self serving individuals within, line their own nests politically and financially.

Which is why we had Military occupation governments in both cases, not try to rush through democracy and empower the most corrupt vultures we could find to buy oil from.
My bold, just after the war I was watching a programme about bidding foir the rebuilding, qquite alot of local companies and also as you'd expect a smattering of American companies. Give the locals the work, raise employment. working for themselves everyon happy thinks I. Alas contracts given to the septics which causes conternation(!?!) to locals. Obvious to a blind man that this was not the best course of action.
 
#12
After the war, the americans ensured that the rebuilding contracts were aimed at coalition partner owned and based companies. It reaked of Kennedy's death with the Vietnam war going into a war which increased the US [war] industry.

The amount of distasteful jokes, actions and an utter disrespect for traditions by US troops (as can be seen on youtube etc...) in country does not make a 'hearts and minds' tactics worthwhile - it is more like burn 'em down...
 
#13
And brit troops on youtube don't make distasteful jokes and have total respect for the locals,get real.
 
#14
PartTimePongo said:
Germany- Defeated and scared sh*tless of the Russians arriving.

Japan - Made to glow in the dark and humiliated. They started it too.

No comparison.

Iraq - Nation of proud Arabs, possibly the most intelligent Arabic nation per capita thanks to Saddam's free education programmes. Ritually humiliated by not being fully involved in the rebuilding of their own country, unlike Japan and Germany. Watching life deteriorate under the 'liberation' , busy blaming us for breaking it and not mending it.

Especially as the "free and democratically elected government" are busy playing both ends against the middle , while the corrupt and self serving individuals within, line their own nests politically and financially.

Which is why we had Military occupation governments in both cases, not try to rush through democracy and empower the most corrupt vultures we could find to buy oil from.
Agreed, and if you add that certainly in Germany post surrender the Cotrol Commision was very quick to restore civil order and authority disarming the population and providing effective administration, compared to the complete lack of such action in Iraq giving those who wished to assume power without a democratic mandate the opportunity to arm and organise, todays chaos is not that surprising. Most of the armed groups just want the coalition out so they can get on with the key task of taking power and disposing of their opponents
 
#15
easymoney - I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, will you drool into your corn flakes.... my comments, aimed at the hearts and minds tool which is implemented via US command!!

I made no reference to British troops as it didn't aid the point I was making and would have served no purpose!

I am sure the Poles made rude and ..... but who the fock speaks Polish?
 
#16
No comparison.
Wrong, PTP - there is a very definite comparison to be made: one could include FRY in this argument as well, which is both closer in time, still in transition, and includes Christians and Muslims.

Maxi 77's comments are the most relevant: planning for the peace started some years before the end of the war for both Germany and Japan: that's the key difference. It is worth comparing all these cases to identify where we've gone wrong.

I quite agree that the post conflict piece has been an inept bungle in this case, but I don't, personally, buy the 'proud literate nation' as the principle reason for what's now happening. It may be part of the equation, but it smacks of something the Bush/war haters have found convenient to publicise - just like 'our foreign policy is the root of all this fundamentalism'.

(Edit: "Most of the armed groups just want the coalition out so they can get on with the key task of taking power and disposing of their opponents". And that, to me, is the key: nothing to do with 'evil imperialist oil grabbers', everything to do with naked power politics without any effective restraint we can apply)
 
#17
Bot - I agree with the statement that the factions want power over Iraq.

The root of the problem could be that the Person, Saddam, knew the problem and ruled accordingly. Now, that is in the past look to the present. The situation is volatile. Why? Because there are too many limitations and Mullahs are free to indoctrinate. Sadly, the US and UK governments are feeding them viable info and reasons.

A heavy handed approach is needed to eradicate the bad apples and the indoctrination could end - that is why the people see us as terrorists!!! We are the ones who look different and their arab, muslim brothers are fighting for the freedom of Iraq - that's what it looks like.

A prognosis for the future is bleak, as soon as coalition forces leave there will be an almighty civil war! Who knows what hapens then..... A bigger Iran perhaps?
 
#18
Sadly, the Iraq war isnt doing the army much justice and people who before had respect for the forces, are or have turned on them.

In some cases, its perhaps not politically correct to say you in the army.

And of course its all the armys fault that they are there.
 
#19
Pal - that is 100% correct! I am fortunate enough to have people around me who are pro forces (and anti government) so all is well - I do not hide the fact and am proud of my service.... having said that - I've started checking my car again...... Well at least PIRA gave us the edge - just need to go back into safe mode!
 
#20
One sides freedom fighter is always the other sides terrorist - it just depends who wins and writes the history books, or what side of the fence you look at it from.
 

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