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British Army sexist

Padre

Old-Salt
#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4876550.stm

Just heard a link on radio (03:00) - someone called in saying that anyone who makes a sexist comment should be 'booted out'.

Another caller said that women shouldn't be put in some situations and the forces, especially 'front line' was one of them.

Mmmm,

P
 
#2
The army may not be perfect, but it's been a place where verbal abuse and p1ss taking have been part of the culture for at least the last 100 years. If women want to be a pert of the army they should join in and accept that. They should mould into the army, just as everyone else has to. Many manage it and in my opinoin, when they do some of the girls are as 'bad' if not 'worse' than some of the guys. Those that don't or can't probably shouldn't be in the army anyway.

The only other option is to change the army into something else. The thing is, do you want to change something that in times of war has up to now worked more often than not in favour of having something that is polite and acceptable. The army's not for everyone. If YOU don't fit in it may be you not the army that needs changing... and that goes for males AND females.
 
#4
The Army is like many institutions where some degree of sexism exists, but it is slowly changing as more women join and reach positions of power and influence. Compare it with The City: fair enough the Army is more than a 9-5 job, as it impacts one's living arrangements and social life, but in terms of 'traditional' attitudes, job division and general perception, I would suggest that the two are quite similar, probably with The City being further behind when it comes to promotion prospects.

Yes there's the argument that in the enlightened 21st Century sex and gender should be irrelevant to professional development, so long as a person is capable of fulfilling the requirements of a job, but that is an idyllic rather than a realistic view. 'Traditional institutional prejudices' take time to wear down, however I don't deem all alleged sexist attitudes to be that - my view is that some of them are realistic limits and to challenge them for the sake of gender-parity is not only naive but counter-productive when standards are "adjusted" to allow women to do certain jobs. Not every man or woman is suited for a particular job or industry and individuals owe it to themselves to realistically appraise their own personality and talents to see whether they are truly suited to the ethos of a workplace before they commit to it.
 
#5
It can't have been that bad for the poor girl. At least she made full screw. It sounds like she was quite unpopular. Still, does your bum look big in lightweights? £12,000 ta! 8O
 
#6
Again we are talking about changing the Army to suit society, The Army is nothing like The City and that I think is where we are going wrong.
We are selling the Army like any other job and its not. Its not a nine to five job its a way of life. We are charged with protecting the people of this country. The public need to decide what they want, but have to realize if we make the change they want we cant change back.Bullying is wrong we all agree on that but there is a certain amount of banter that goes on everyday.You are signing a piece of paper to say you are willing to give your life for the freedom of others.
If you are badly affected by someone calling you names how are you going to cope when it comes down to you and the enemy, bayonets fixed hand to hand?? I know the chances of being in that situation for most of us are slim but look at history the most unlikely people become heroes.
We all get called names and have the p**s taken out of us, I thought the training in Phase One was harsh but I accepted I had to be trained that way and to be perfectly frank am very glad too.
These peole really grip my s**t, just because your not promoted when you think you should be or dont get the posting you think you deserve, dont go looking for a scapegoat because you feel bad, take it on the chin and work harder. Stop dragging down the job I love.
Finally apologies if anyone thinks Im out of order but as i said I signed up for my privilege of free speech.
Am now going to get back in my box NUFF SAID
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#7
Yep, MSI64. I have to agree. If you can't stand the heat - fcuk off and get a job at McD's! (does that just about cover it?)
 
#8
Even more about Leah Mates in the Scum (sorry but I couldn't help myself): http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006150576,00.html

I notice that she is still serving, although due to leave, so she obviously has no fears about talking to the press.

£12,000 is probably a lot less than she was hoping for - does she think it was worth it now? I am not condoning this action but will it prevent other from coming forward, due to both the way she has been treated since the allegations and how she has portrayed herself?

Ref the Sebastienne Lawson case: it is a fact of service life that guys will push the boundaries but a lot of these comments were probably to test her out and see where they stood with her. Whilst she may have confidence issues, the fact that she didn't react nor give back what was dished out meant the she was regarded as being weak and therefore brought her more problems.

I like to know the sort of people with whom I am serving, whether or not they are a strong person, confident, etc thus I can work out whther I can rely on them, both in barracks and out, or not.
 
#9
MSI64 said:
Again we are talking about changing the Army to suit society, The Army is nothing like The City and that I think is where we are going wrong.
When I compared the Army with The City I was merely comparing traditional institutional prejudices, it wasn't my intention for anyone to infer that I was comparing the demands or lifestyle - I know that the two are inherently different.
 
#10
I also was not saying you were wrong please dont think that my rant was aimed at you in particular
 
#11
Legs said:
Yep, MSI64. I have to agree. If you can't stand the heat - fcuk off and get a job at McD's! (does that just about cover it?)

Yes that just about covers it I guess I need to learn to condense my rantings :D
 
#12
Legs said:
Yep, MSI64. I have to agree. If you can't stand the heat - fcuk off and get a job at McD's! (does that just about cover it?)
I wholeheartedly agree.
 
#14
There's nearly two other threads on this subject:

Sigs thread

Int Corps thread

Clingfilm over the loo? Harrassment??! I would have thought that was a pratical joke. £12000 - equivalent to less than half a year's wage! Well that's a result then :roll: no woner she's 'quite please'. Wherever she goes, she's bound to find a level of 'sexism' on both sides when you fall with workmates be it a half naked calendar on the wall or two ladies talking openly what they think an adequate man should be. A firm "shut the f*** up" would be more than adequate answer for unwanted banter. If I took every comment to a tribunal, I wouldn't have enough time to do my day job. That said, I hope she'll be able to find work where the level of trust and friendship is satisfactory and comfortable to her criteria.
 
#15
There is a sexist culture in the Army - fact.

How many times have you heard old-timers bleat on about fcuking doris's this, and split-arrses that, and that single females either get branded a slapper or a lesbian and how they shouldn't serve in front-line units etc etc...yawn, yawn yawn!

My experience, around 16 yrs, is that the army achieves a pretty healthy balance between professional relationships and banter.

Now i don't know the full facts on the Mates case, but much of what i've read appears to be pretty harmless to the onlooker, but the key issue is, that if the individual is offended by the behaviour then it must stop, immeadately.

The chain of Command has a responsibilty to enforce this, rigourously - now, irrespective of whether the contributors on here find the behaviour amusing or indifferent, if Cpl Mates was offended then that's enough for an EO case to develop.

However, that doesn't remove the onus on the individual to do something about it before it gets to this level. I'd be interested to know what personal steps she took when the first instances happened. Eg, did she inform the offending party that she found the behaviour unacceptable, did she ask for an interview with the CoC, did she present a written record to the CoC....or did she just ruminate and allow a case to develop in order to get money out of the system?
 
#16
This whole thing is just ridiculous. At the end of the day there will be banter of all natures. I am currently in an office with 4 middle aged civvy women (and no i wouldn't before anyone asks!). I could have sued for gazillions of pounds by now, indeed so could they because of the banter that is flung around. Why haven't we - because we're all grown ups and can have a joke and a laugh with each other. These eejits who complain about the slightest thing only serve to take the focus away from true bullying where it does exist.

~I'm sorry but if you can't take a joke then you really shouldn't join!
 
#17
Horridlittleman said:
I am currently in an office with 4 middle aged civvy women (and no i wouldn't before anyone asks!). I could have sued for gazillions of pounds by now, indeed so could they because of the banter that is flung around.
~I'm sorry but if you can't take a joke then you really shouldn't join!
they appreciate the humour and the banter that's good and healthy, but their replacement may not, or more importantly a 3rd party may overhear you.

one unguarded comment with a fellow employee, harmless, a joke or otherwise can land you in serious hot water - whether you agree with it or not.

sadly its:

a. the law

b. indicative of the society we live in
 
#18
I am incredibly lucky in that respect - there is even a member of the RAF in the office next to me, and he even joins in! :lol:
 
#20
I must admit...outside of the case for accepting that the Army is a somewhat unique organisation in the UK and perhaps if you can't handle some of the rougher behaviour then you should consider if you belong in the Army....that my recent-ish exposure to some "Elite" groups is that some "elite" groups have a problem......To be unkind I prefer the term "Special needs" for some of these "elite" groups.
If there is a problem with any such group then it needs to be sorted out....if needed by the wholesale dissmissal of everybody in that group a la Canuck para regiment.

Harsh words I accept but the Army depends on all parts of the team doing their job. Someone's life depends on everybody. Not ******* about like the Sweeny....
 

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