british army is not up to it anymore

did you know that glasgow are now calling up the T.A. on a compulsory basis for iraq?

did you know also that they are also calling up formar soldiers who leaft over three yaers ago asking them if they would like to volunteer for service in iraq BEFORE they too are also called up on a compulsory basis?

what is going on here, why is the army in such a state

once upon a time we had an army to be proud of

it would appear that all the cutbacks in the 90's were not such a good idea
the extra stain it put on the remainder of soldiers has obviously made the job a lot less attractive.

The job now involves a lot more operational tours/time away from teh family and yet it does not reflect in the salary.
those who work away on the rigs get paid well for doing so...and noone is shooting at them!

I just hope we dont get invaded! we obvioulsly dont have enough men for our current responsibilites let alone another war.
Units have been borrowing men off each other for the last ten years so that they will be up to operational strength when deploying on operations, but now there is nobody to borrow anymore.

people got sick of being away all the time at pittance pay and left.
now it looks like there are more people leaving than there is joining!
Hardly a surprise when the salary is a joke and the odds of getting shot greater than ever.

Its a wake up call!!
the army needs sorting out, it needs paying properly and it needs a recruitment drive before someone walks into this country and gives it a new name!

Mr Blair, you promise everyone what they want, its impossible to give it, you cant cut taxes AND feed and house all the immigrants
its simple mathmatics!
How about making the scroungers join up for 2 yrs in exchange for a home for their family?

It wont happen though, cos it would mean losing votes!
this country is turning into a joke. If i come into any money im taking it all out of here to live in a country that looks after itself NOT after everyone else at the workers expense
Ashfield Chad (Chronicle Advertiser)

Mansfield & Ashfield Recorder

2 papers covering Buff Hoon's stamping ground.....use them wisely at the appropriate time! :twisted:

Other contributions welcome! Let's get writing, nearer the election!
Copey - where have you been?!

Since the start of last year over 10,000 people from the TA and the RN & RAF equivalents have been compulsorily mobilised - and you've only just noticed?

As you say, the cuts over recent years don't look so clever now!
With more cut's that are planned HMF will be in a worse state.
Tony ********* blair and his lap dogs need to wake up and support the forces with a better pay and benifits package, which would make it more attractive to new recruits and retention of more personnel.

Tax exemtion while on operational tours would be a start, other nations (Canada) do this.
roundscomplete said:
With more cut's that are planned HMF will be in a worse state.
Tony ********* blair and his lap dogs need to wake up and support the forces with a better pay and benifits package, which would make it more attractive to new recruits and retention of more personnel.

Tax exemtion while on operational tours would be a start, other nations (Canada) do this.
tax exemption, UN wages weve heard it all before. Truth is there are more problems hurting the Armed forces than simply wage bonuses.

The lights are on but no one is home, we can only depend on ourselves and our ability to get the job done.

Another issue as pointed out on this forum before, the public dont give two jim royle shiny shiites about the Armed forces, its commitments etc. No they are up in arms becuase some bint gave Britains savour David B a good shagg in Spain.
Disco said:
No they are up in arms becuase some bint gave Britains savour David B a good shagg in Spain.
Beg your pardon, he might be Englands, but don't tar the rest of us with him. You can keep the twot.
Lets face it folks, the elastic band keeping the forces together is now so tatty and stretched it will break soon enough.

TBliar (praise be upon his name!) believes his spin so much he has permanent rose tinted contacts on and so on we go until the whole British forces implodes.

But as said earlier, the british public don't care. Remember the R Kippling poem, still more ponient than ever!
Let us look at the reasons for the current state of the Armed Forces (at least as I see them):

- In the decade after the end of the Cold War the Armed Forces were allowed to be run down, as it was felt that a significant threat no longer existed. If memory serves, this was the sort of utopian thinking that also held sway after the Great War.

- Even where military situations arose (Gulf War I, Bosnia/Kosovo, Sierra Leone) these were fairly limited events in that operations were conducted under particular circumstances or UN auspices. Therefore, the full military capabilities of the Armed Forces were not called upon, and those problems which arose could be and were largely ignored. It takes a large-scale commitment of forces to a real 'shooting war' to expose problems - look at the Falklands.

- The post-Cold War world, especially Europe, has seen a particularly virulent form of anti-militarism and political correctness arise. I know that whenever I mentioned to friends of mine on Continental Europe and at home that I was hoping to pursue a military career the reaction was generally one of either bemused incomprehension or outright hostility. For many people, their perception of the Armed Forces (at least in the UK) is that they are composed of either the 'dregs of society' or 'toffs'. Politicians are aware of this popular sentiment and this is reflected in their attitude towards their militaries.

- The professional skill and competence of servicemen and women across all ranks of the Armed Forces in operations during the recent past has meant that, despite the obvious and serious problems, their political masters are able to point to the job still being done. For example, no other army in the world (with the exception of the reserve of the Jamaican Defence Forces I believe) uses the SA80 (or the 'new improved' version), but the ordinary British soldier can get away with using this shoddy weapon because he is a damn sight better trained and a better soldier than his better-armed counterpart or opponent. This 'muddling through' approach is not a recent phenomenon - history shows that it takes a real disaster (the Crimea, the Boer War, Dunkirk, Singapore) before H.M. Forces are allowed to get their house in order by the political powers-that-be.

- While I hold no brief for the Conservative Party, I have to say that the current Labour Government is, as a party of the left, ideologically at odds with all that the Armed Forces represent - hierarchy, obedience, duty, elitism, respect, camaraderie, loyalty, sacrifice. I stand to be corrected, but I do not imagine that many (if indeed any) members of the current government have served in H.M. Forces. Would the Conservatives be any better? - they should be, as I cannot see how they could be any worse. It should be remembered though, that they must shoulder some share of the responsibility for the state of the Armed Forces. The sad fact is that short of a full-scale war, any government can treat the Armed Forces in this manner and get away with it.
It matters not who is in power (Conservatives, New Labour, Lib Dems) but the Armed Forces are always looked at to reduce expenditure.

What should really happen is that we have a CGS who says enough is enough, no more! However that is so unlikely as they too seem to be becoming politicised either that or they want thier pension to get bigger (most likely!).

We have reached serious stretching point and these cutbacks that are planned are in my view and so many others too much. If we have to lauch our own independent forry into an armed conflict, we won't be able to soon!
I believe TBlair redressed th eproblem of no ex-Forces MPs and there are a few bumming around.

one things that also needs to be put into perspctive is that the armed forces have, i believe, the biggest budget of all gov departments. However, th epublic, as one of oyu so rightly points out is unaware of how this money is spent and indeed what the forces do. What they do here about is things like soldiers going on AT, TA personnel getting loads of MMA so that they make a profit on every journey to work.

Do not get me wrong - i am not defending cut backs! part of what needs ot be done is for the ared forces to tell the oublic what they have been doing, explain h ereasons for the benefits, etc. I remember when i considered the RN (no heckling please) and i had to really struggle to say what th eRN actualy did! perhaps we should look to our own spin to lift th eprofile of th eforces and force the governments hand, with some public support?!

one things that also needs to be put into perspctive is that the armed forces have, i believe, the biggest budget of all gov departments.
Really. I wish! :roll:

NHS budget £68.7bn by 2003-04

Defense budget I beleive is £21 bn

Less than it was when I did my EPC 10 years ago. Back then both budgets were the same. So that puts it into some perspective.

Lets face it the government will continue along this line until something snaps. I suspect this outing in Iraq will cause something to break. More and more troops on active service, no kit, no medical services. At some point we will no longer be able to muddle through. I just feel sorry for the guys who will end up dieing to make that point.
I think the trots have one MP who served in the forces - initially as a Jock in the Watch and then as an officer in the Education Corps. You may remember he was the one who broke all the rules about talking to the press etc (he had some sort of political top cover and so got away with most of it). He comes across on TV as being very balanced in that he has a bag of chips on each shoulder.

No faith in fatty Soames in defence but I did meet John Reid when he was Army Minister and he was the sort of man who should have the job.
That is the aptly-named traitor Eric Joyce, who was indeed a jock and then I think AGC. He was in deep poo some years past, but if one of us lot went public as he did, I am sure he would be the first to wade in on BuffHoon's behalf.

John Reid is too political, he went off half-cock at the spooks over the Kelly thing. Some of the old Defence ministers (Peter Kilfoyle and Douglas Alexander) have attacked Bliar over the war....a bit of backbone, no wonder they're on the backbenches!
My local MP, Eric Joyce is an ex-squaddie. Was Pte, then left to go to Uni and rejoined with commission, ended up Maj in Whitehall. Unfortunately he was the bloke parachuted in by Bliar after the kerfuffle with Dennis Canavan, so only got in when Dennis resigned from Westminster. The Labour vote here is so strong they could put a monkey up for election (some would say they have) and it would get voted in.
he went off half-*
The asterisk was meant to say the word c-o-c-k, not in the rude sense, but technology obviously didn't see it that way!

Didn't think the accent of Maj Joyce retd sounded English enough for a Black Watch officer! :wink:
I lived in the same mess as the Honourable Member who is ex BW and Ed Corps, pleasant enough guy but with Harry Ramsdens on both shoulders. Convinced all officers are only there because Daddy wanted them to and Great Great Great Great Grandpa raised the regiment to fight with the Iron Duke. I think part of the chip relates to the fact that he was a Jock, left, and to his credit did a degree, but was then too old to join anything else other than the Schoolies afterwards.

As a Tony's Crony par excellence he is no friend of HM Forces, he is more likely to have us all eating in one big cookhouse and calling all ranks "mate" than fight our corner with Grabbing Gordon the Taxation Gorgon

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