British Airways To Cut 12000 Jobs

IIRC, they stopped their flights from LBA to LHR on 27/05/20, which is a great pity because it was good service, as is the one to Newcastle. Last year, I used both routes for work. By giving up on regional airports, BA are merely encouraging passengers to fly KLM/AF to AMS or CDG. And Alex Cruz is meant to be some sort of business genius? Right... :roll:
Basic rule of business. If an activity doesn’t generate profit, don’t do it. Let your competitors piss away resources trying to make them intrinsically low profit / unprofitable activities profitable, whilst you focus on the profitable. It’s a business; volume does not equal profit.

Air France-KLM’s operating margin in 2019 was 3.4%. IAG’s was 12.9%. Which is doing better?
 
Basic rule of business. If an activity doesn’t generate profit, don’t do it. Let your competitors piss away resources trying to make them intrinsically low profit / unprofitable activities profitable, whilst you focus on the profitable. It’s a business; volume does not equal profit.

Air France-KLM’s operating margin in 2019 was 3.4%. IAG’s was 12.9%. Which is doing better?
I thought that you were ignoring me Bob? :roll:
 
Basic rule of business. If an activity doesn’t generate profit, don’t do it. Let your competitors piss away resources trying to make them intrinsically low profit / unprofitable activities profitable, whilst you focus on the profitable. It’s a business; volume does not equal profit.

Air France-KLM’s operating margin in 2019 was 3.4%. IAG’s was 12.9%. Which is doing better?
Maybe LBA/LHR was a route with low profits in it's own right, but how many of the pax on that route then flew BA long-haul?, and in closing that route, those pax are lost to competitors out of AMS, etc?.
 
With Monday's 14 day quarantine kicking in, there will be very few airline flights to the UK from that point onwards.

If this continues, a lot of staff are going to be 'let go' from all UK airlines and airports.
 
With Monday's 14 day quarantine kicking in, there will be very few airline flights to the UK from that point onwards.

If this continues, a lot of staff are going to be 'let go' from all UK airlines and airports.
What needs to happen is to bin this quarantine nonsense and let profit take priority over any plague containment measures.
 
Maybe LBA/LHR was a route with low profits in it's own right, but how many of the pax on that route then flew BA long-haul?, and in closing that route, those pax are lost to competitors out of AMS, etc?.
At a blind guess, IAG / BA make their business decisions based on data. They model and test assumptions and carry out detailed analysis before committing. And they have a corporate process for decision making which is based on strategic objectives, not emotion. They are, after all, the most profitable long haul passenger airline in the world.

That doesn’t, of course, mean that they don’t make mistakes. All business decisions carry risk; profit is the reward for taking risk. The evidence of success is in the numbers.
 
What needs to happen is to bin this quarantine nonsense and let profit take priority over any plague containment measures.
These measures are way too late to be of any use. 40,000 deaths and no check on arrivals for 4 months from anywhere has seen to that.

This measure is ludicrous in the extreme, and the longer it is in place, the more economic damage it will do. Eventually it will bankrupt airlines and close airports on a permanent basis.
 
What needs to happen is to bin this quarantine nonsense and let profit take priority over any plague containment measures.
Why not let logic take over from emotion?

Quarantine people flying in from countries that have very low rates of COVID-19 infection does not contribute to containing a “plague” in the UK which has a very high rate of infection? Australia’s total of COVID-19 related deaths is less than those that died in the UK yesterday. What risk does do I present that would require quarantine?

And where does profit enter the equation? The priority for all businesses screwed by COVID lockdowns is revenue. At least cover the cash burn rate. Returning to profit is a long way down the track.
 
These quarantine restrictions seem like some sort of civil service power-grab with little concern for the economy. Ministerial backing for this seems absurd.

Had this been introduced in February, it would have made sense, but the horse has bolted months ago.

There is talk of a court challenge. Should this fail, I can see BA and the rest of the aviation and wider travel industry making mass redundancies.
 
These measures are way too late to be of any use. 40,000 deaths and no check on arrivals for 4 months from anywhere has seen to that.

This measure is ludicrous in the extreme, and the longer it is in place, the more economic damage it will do. Eventually it will bankrupt airlines and close airports on a permanent basis.
I’m not convinced that failing to check arrivals was really significant to the spread of COVID in the UK. I’d suggest that PHE’s failure to go out to market for testing, the NHS’s failure to procure PPE and the decision to send people out from hospitals with infections into care homes were far more significant.

Right from the start, the epicentres of infection have been hospitals, started by staff who returned to the UK with COVID from winter holidays. The modelling then assumed rates of infection based on what was happening in hospitals and so lockdown occurred. The fact is that, outside of the healthcare system, COVID-19 peaked BEFORE lockdown.

I think there’s a strong case for businesses like BA to seek judicial review of the unnecessary quarantine restrictions and to seek damages if they are not rescinded.

I’m also growing more convinced that there could well emerge a case for businesses to sue for loss due to what will prove to have been a largely unnecessary lockdown.
 
Why not let logic take over from emotion?

Quarantine people flying in from countries that have very low rates of COVID-19 infection does not contribute to containing a “plague” in the UK which has a very high rate of infection? Australia’s total of COVID-19 related deaths is less than those that died in the UK yesterday. What risk does do I present that would require quarantine?

And where does profit enter the equation? The priority for all businesses screwed by COVID lockdowns is revenue. At least cover the cash burn rate. Returning to profit is a long way down the track.
my mate in Brisvegas was staggered to hear that more than twice as many prople died of WuFlu in my local hospital, 230, than in all of Australia,
 
my mate in Brisvegas was staggered to hear that more than twice as many prople died of WuFlu in my local hospital, 230, than in all of Australia,
Lots of reasons, but really it was about testing. There were testing stations set up right at the beginning and people use them. That and contact tracking; Australia gripped contact tracking very early on. We’ve had an app on our phones for 6 weeks. You cant go to see a doctor without a test and everyone going in to hospital is tested.

Big difference between Aus and UK; diagnostic pathology is nearly all in the private sector (as is imaging). When your GP needs path, he writes a script and you head to a collection point, usually in your local shopping mall. Same with imaging; need a CT scan? Doctor writes a script and you book in with any of a number of local providers and are in within a couple of days.

PHE’s performance over testing is IMHO a scandal for which heads need to roll. The costs to entirely innocent businesses is astronomical. I’m glad to see BA, EasyJet and Ryanair have started legal action against the Government over quarantine. I think it could just be the start of legal action.
 
Lots of reasons, but really it was about testing. There were testing stations set up right at the beginning and people use them. That and contact tracking; Australia gripped contact tracking very early on. We’ve had an app on our phones for 6 weeks. You cant go to see a doctor without a test and everyone going in to hospital is tested.

Big difference between Aus and UK; diagnostic pathology is nearly all in the private sector (as is imaging). When your GP needs path, he writes a script and you head to a collection point, usually in your local shopping mall. Same with imaging; need a CT scan? Doctor writes a script and you book in with any of a number of local providers and are in within a couple of days.

PHE’s performance over testing is IMHO a scandal for which heads need to roll. The costs to entirely innocent businesses is astronomical. I’m glad to see BA, EasyJet and Ryanair have started legal action against the Government over quarantine. I think it could just be the start of legal action.
There needs to be heads rolling across the public sector over this. And not least in the civil service. The lockdown is being used to increase power over citizens on a permanent basis. There is an agenda at play, here.

Looking forward, the chances are the economy is going to be in recession for the foreseeable future. I'll be interested in seeing how the government propose to get out of tis without tax rises.
 
I’m not very bright do it has taken a while for the penny to drop as to why @bobthebuilder and I are so fundamentally at odds. Bob, you constantly drag out data (impressive diligence BTW) that purports to show BA as a successful business, largely based on survey results (laughable BTW as anyone in the industry will attest to as the surveys are highly subjective and wholly inconsistent) and the more reliable financial performance (although creative accounting was invented by the aviation sector!).

In other words, history.

My argument is that BA are storing up a miserable future. It is difficult to quantify my argument with data because the premise of it is essentially unquantifiable as it centres on human nature and behaviour. None of the things like passenger satisfaction and the value a contented workforce bring to a business appear on bottom lines, at least not at first and even then, there is no direct link in the way there was when share prices and passenger numbers crashed in the immediate aftermath of specific events such as 9/11 or Covid. Passenger numbers just dwindle rather than crash.

I’m quite prepared to accept that BA was a successful business but even before Covid the writing was on the wall. Just take the snapshot views voiced here about the number of people who now source flights elsewhere. Add in now the after effects of the current BA plan to ride roughshod over your employees in a business that is heavily dependent on service quality and I can only see the downward trend in revenue associated with the downward trend in service accelerating.

In other words, the future.

In the mid to late ‘30s many Germans would have looked back on the history of Hitler‘s work as a stunning achievement. How many of them held the same view in 1945?

Let‘s have this conversation again in 5 years time.
 
Right from the start, the epicentres of infection have been hospitals, started by staff who returned to the UK with COVID from winter holidays. The modelling then assumed rates of infection based on what was happening in hospitals and so lockdown occurred. The fact is that, outside of the healthcare system, COVID-19 peaked BEFORE lockdown.
I had come to that conclusion myself - gut feeling and lack of data and transparency about sources of infections when we were in lock-down

However have you seen information to support that conclusion ?

Archie
 

maritime

Old-Salt
These quarantine restrictions seem like some sort of civil service power-grab with little concern for the economy. Ministerial backing for this seems absurd.

Had this been introduced in February, it would have made sense, but the horse has bolted months ago.

There is talk of a court challenge. Should this fail, I can see BA and the rest of the aviation and wider travel industry making mass redundancies.
Ive been living the dream as a civvy wafu,(bubble looks like it will burst.) My department,and other depts has been warned off for redundancies. 1st round of cuts is just the beginning.
 
Ive been living the dream as a civvy wafu,(bubble looks like it will burst.) My department,and other depts has been warned off for redundancies. 1st round of cuts is just the beginning.
Wafu?
 
I’m not very bright do it has taken a while for the penny to drop as to why @bobthebuilder and I are so fundamentally at odds. Bob, you constantly drag out data (impressive diligence BTW) that purports to show BA as a successful business, largely based on survey results (laughable BTW as anyone in the industry will attest to as the surveys are highly subjective and wholly inconsistent) and the more reliable financial performance (although creative accounting was invented by the aviation sector!).
You’ve got me fundamentally wrong. I don’t base my view on BA (or any other business) on “surveys”. I base it on financials. I stand by everything I’ve posted; before COVOD BA was one of the few long haul airlines globally that actually makes money. The rest either suck on the tit of tax payers money or have evaded their debts by Chapter 11 measures.

The fact is the the people who you quote as “most in the industry” are actually the bus drivers that you represent. The people who expect to earn high salaries yet contribute nothing to how those salaries are actually earned. And who probably think that BA’s cash like should have been spent on staff bonuses.

I seriously hope that a business in which I jane built a reasonable stake (my interest is as a shareholder) uses the inevitable restructuring that COVID will bring to rid itself of the massive cost burden that is BALPA.
 

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