British Airways To Cut 12000 Jobs

But the complexity is entirely artificial, that's the thing. There's nothing inherent in running an airline (or any other sort of business for that matter) that says it has to have some elaborate ownership structure, the only reasons to do it are to evade either taxes or regulations or both. It's not reasonable to dodge paying their fair share during the good times and expect everyone else to dig into their pockets to support them in the bad times.



Re-capitalisation always wipes out existing shareholders. That's just how it works. How ironic that these businesses have through their own decisions made that politically and financially impossible.

How about Branson sells his 51% stake to the taxpayer for £1 and then the taxpayer props up the business as necessary with an eye to later re-sale. I think that would be politically do-able.
Are you in receipt of any Government furlough pay?
 
Barriers to entry?
It’s relatively easy to set up an airline that flies 737s / A329s from regional airport to regional airport. That’s why there are lots of budget startups. It’s much harder to set up a scheduled airline flying Heathrow to JFK in wide bodies. There are huge barriers to entering the long haul scheduled market, which is why there have been near zero new entrants over the last 50 years.
 
But the complexity is entirely artificial, that's the thing. There's nothing inherent in running an airline (or any other sort of business for that matter) that says it has to have some elaborate ownership structure, the only reasons to do it are to evade either taxes or regulations or both. It's not reasonable to dodge paying their fair share during the good times and expect everyone else to dig into their pockets to support them in the bad times.



Re-capitalisation always wipes out existing shareholders. That's just how it works. How ironic that these businesses have through their own decisions made that politically and financially impossible.

How about Branson sells his 51% stake to the taxpayer for £1 and then the taxpayer props up the business as necessary with an eye to later re-sale. I think that would be politically do-able.
Rubbish. The complex ownership of companies stems from how they grow. The journey of raising capital, which nearly always involves selling equity. And the subsequent journey of mergers and acquisitions by which companies grow.

Recapitalisation only wipes out existing shareholders if it involves equity. American Airlines, Delta, Air France-KLM and Lufthansa are all being recapitalised with government secured debt.

How about Branson restructures Virgin with private equity (the most likely outcome) and moves the whole of Virgin Holdings our of the UK?
 
How about Branson restructures Virgin with private equity (the most likely outcome) and moves the whole of Virgin Holdings our of the UK?
Dont let the door hit his arse on the way out.
 
It’s relatively easy to set up an airline that flies 737s / A329s from regional airport to regional airport. That’s why there are lots of budget startups. It’s much harder to set up a scheduled airline flying Heathrow to JFK in wide bodies. There are huge barriers to entering the long haul scheduled market, which is why there have been near zero new entrants over the last 50 years.
Is it easier for budget airlines to start up because they can tap into the bucket and spade holiday market?

Is there that much of a potential market for Heathrow - JFK, or does the existing capacity meet demand?
 
I’m sure you’ll be able to replace Virgin Holding’s tax contribution and their investment capital from your salary.
Werent you the one gobbing off about how Virgin would be able to pay back any taxpayers loans? Only for me to inform you that they hadnt made a profit in years?

Beardie doesnt base some of his businesses in the UK because he loves the UK, he does so because he thinks he financially benefits the most from it (Like just about every other company). With or without Covid 19 he would **** off to France, the USA or North Korea if he thought it would bring him more money. So there is no need for you to arse kiss him so much.
 
Is it easier for budget airlines to start up because they can tap into the bucket and spade holiday market?

Is there that much of a potential market for Heathrow - JFK, or does the existing capacity meet demand?
It’s more about the capital requirements I think. Long haul needs bigger, better planes, expensive landing slots at hubs, investment in peripherals like lounges etc etc. Plus there are well established market players against whom you have to compete. And you have to market. Certainly the likes of TUI and Jet2 don’t have big marketing requirements as their service is usually part of a package.

As for LHR-JFK, I don’t know. BA’s service was the most lucrative route in the world, generating over $1Bn a year. 15 flights a day; that kind of capacity and load factor takes years to build.
 
And now EasyJet join in. Up to 30% from all areas (4,500).

This just two days after they unfurloughed their U.K. based pilots presumably in some sort of attempt to avoid the criticisms being levelled at BA.

Edit to add: Initial indications are 12% of pilots across all U.K. and European bases.

Has Stelios won then? He’d been campaigning hard to abandon planned fleet growth.
 
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And now EasyJet join in. Up to 30% from all areas (4,500).

This just two days after they unfurloughed their U.K. based pilots presumably in some sort of attempt to avoid the criticisms being levelled at BA.

Edit to add: Initial indications are 12% of pilots across all U.K. and European bases.

Has Stelios won then? He’d been campaigning hard to abandon planned fleet growth.
EasyJet has laid out fresh cost cutting plans that will involve axing up to a third of its 15,000-strong workforce in response to the Covid-19 crisis. EasyJet said its fleet will also involve 51 fewer aircraft than expected by year-end 2021.
Looks like he has won.
 
You can imagine a parallel universe - or perhaps even just a time in the past - when BA was loved. When people were proud to be seen travelling with them, and willingly paid a premium price for a premium service. When people were so happy with BA that they wouldn't even look at the competition, and certainly wouldn't want their neighbours to know that they flew on downmarket alternative. OK maybe I am overegging the pudding a bit there. Virgin did have this within living memory. But nowadays giving money to any airline would be a slap in the face for the traveling taxpayers.
Pretty much this. I went down to Buenos Aires earlier this year and there were only 2 options to fly direct, BA and Norwegian Air. I was all up for BA because of the grandeur of flying with them (I know, I know) until I saw to fly premium economy was £700 more expensive than NA and BA was a smaller seat and an older airframe.

I use BA short haul through Europe maybe 10 times a year and its fine but the long haul routes are severely broken.
 

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
Rolls Royce losing up to 8000 jobs to, connected to the aviation industry.

Not to mention the jobs in Crawley that depend on Gatwick.
possibly reported elsewhere, but the RR job losses were revised upwards to 9,000.
 

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
Media sources are reporting that BA are planning to make their entire workforce redundant. If, and it is a big if this true, the outlook is very dire.

BA will then invite re-applications to a much lower number of staff on far worse terms than they were on. Is this sort of thing legal?.

The BA bit is some way down this article, which talks about 6 million job losses in Britain..

 
Media sources are reporting that BA are planning to make their entire workforce redundant. If, and it is a big if this true, the outlook is very dire.

BA will then invite re-applications to a much lower number of staff on far worse terms than they were on. Is this sort of thing legal?.

The BA bit is some way down this article, which talks about 6 million job losses in Britain..

When you consider the enormous disparity in T&C’s between their different fleets it’s hardly a surprise they would take the chance to restructure.
 
Media sources are reporting that BA are planning to make their entire workforce redundant. If, and it is a big if this true, the outlook is very dire.

BA will then invite re-applications to a much lower number of staff on far worse terms than they were on. Is this sort of thing legal?.

The BA bit is some way down this article, which talks about 6 million job losses in Britain..

It is legal as long as it applies to everyone.
 
When you consider the enormous disparity in T&C’s between their different fleets it’s hardly a surprise they would take the chance to restructure Reduce everything to the lowest common denominator.
FoC
 
BA are owned by IAG who are a Spanish company.

Where do you think they pay most of their taxes?
 
Walsh appeared in front of a HoC Transport Select Committee. Given the appalling standard of questioning from the Aviation Minister, he was easily able to talk around the questions he was(‘nt) asked.

He sent a letter to the SC a few days later which took a page and a half to say “meh, feck off, we‘re cracking on as planned”. We will find out on the 15th when the Consultation Period ends. So far, BALPA, the pilots’ union are the only ones to have entered discussions.

For first time in living memory many years, I find myself in agreement with a Labour politician (once you get past the lefty “rights” and “we must be seen to be supporting Extinction Rebellion rhetoric):

761A8BB9-E745-4D58-819C-38F732919B04.jpeg

A549481F-13A1-4015-A697-52332960DC46.jpeg


Oh, and the Chancellor ducked the debate and sent......

.....the Aviation Minister.

Anyone got the web address for McDonalds application forms?
 
Walsh appeared in front of a HoC Transport Select Committee. Given the appalling standard of questioning from the Aviation Minister, he was easily able to talk around the questions he was(‘nt) asked.

He sent a letter to the SC a few days later which took a page and a half to say “meh, feck off, we‘re cracking on as planned”. We will find out on the 15th when the Consultation Period ends. So far, BALPA, the pilots’ union are the only ones to have entered discussions.

For first time in living memory many years, I find myself in agreement with a Labour politician (once you get past the lefty “rights” and “we must be seen to be supporting Extinction Rebellion rhetoric):

View attachment 479118
View attachment 479119

Oh, and the Chancellor ducked the debate and sent......

.....the Aviation Minister.

Anyone got the web address for McDonalds application forms?
What a load of shit conditions.
 
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