British Airways To Cut 12000 Jobs

Bob65

Old-Salt
That's an attitude BA and their staff have had for generations.

This attitude pervaded on a lot of flag carriers before the rise of budget airlines, but in BA specifically this has never gone away.

The rise of the Gulf carriers has given people a choice of flying long-haul without the inconvenience of using Heathrow. London British Airways has never been interested in flying from regional airports, preferring their hitherto captive customers to use their overpriced domestic connections.
You can imagine a parallel universe - or perhaps even just a time in the past - when BA was loved. When people were proud to be seen travelling with them, and willingly paid a premium price for a premium service. When people were so happy with BA that they wouldn't even look at the competition, and certainly wouldn't want their neighbours to know that they flew on downmarket alternative. OK maybe I am overegging the pudding a bit there. Virgin did have this within living memory. But nowadays giving money to any airline would be a slap in the face for the traveling taxpayers.
 
So BA isn't the 'national strategic interest' some claim, then?

Any business concern which rolls the dice on the stock market and either rakes in a ton of cash in the good times or goes to the wall in bad times can't suddenly become 'a strategic national interest' to be shielded from adversity.
You don’t understand the first thing about business do you? No business has the cash in the bank to survive months without revenue. And nor does the government.

Please tell me what is the difference between TfL and BA? Here’s a hint; TfL has already run out of cash because it’s dreadfully run and it’s already been bailed out by the taxpayer, no strings attached. IAG (ie BA) is seeing its cash reserves destroyed doing nothing and has warned that it will need cash to survive.

Only the economically illiterate could conclude that one of the 100 biggest tax payers in the UK isn’t strategic. Or that one of only four airlines that serves every continent isn’t part of Britain’s soft power.
 
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You don’t understand the first thing about business do you? No business has the cash in the bank to survive months without revenue. And nor does the government.

Please tell me what is the difference between TfL and BA? Here’s a hint; TfL has already run out of cash because it’s dreadfully run and it’s already been bailed out by the taxpayer, no strings attached. IAG (ie BA) is seeing its cash reserves destroyed doing nothing and has warned that it will need cash to survive.

Only the economically illiterate could conclude that one of the 100 biggest tax payers in the UK isn’t strategic. Or that one of only four airlines that serves every continent isn’t part of Britain’s soft power.
It would seem that HMG doesn't concur with you.

Is everyone, other than your magnificent self, so economically illiterate that they don't make the same conclusions about strategic business, tax income and soft power?

How any country manages without your brilliance is a mystery.
 
It would seem that HMG doesn't concur with you.

Is everyone, other than your magnificent self, so economically illiterate that they don't make the same conclusions about strategic business, tax income and soft power?

How any country manages without your brilliance is a mystery.
Except that HMG is currently working on a bad bank plan to create a “bad bank” to underwrite bailouts of distressed companies. Potential scenario being loans from investment banks underwritten by the government guarantees against some kind of convertible note. Rothschilds are rumoured to be the investment bank which will loan to the aviation industry.

Don’t get me wrong; the IAG/BA that emerges post Corona will be very different from what was there before. Much smaller, leaner and hopefully divested of the dross that is Iberia. I’m not advocating protecting IAG as is, just making sure that a business that was a highly profitable going concern before COVID emerges solvent enough to recover.

Are you another career non-productive civil servant like @History_Man? Because by **** the public sector needs a very deep prune.
 
Except that HMG is currently working on a bad bank plan to create a “bad bank” to underwrite bailouts of distressed companies. Potential scenario being loans from investment banks underwritten by the government guarantees against some kind of convertible note. Rothschilds are rumoured to be the investment bank which will loan to the aviation industry.

Don’t get me wrong; the IAG/BA that emerges post Corona will be very different from what was there before. Much smaller, leaner and hopefully divested of the dross that is Iberia. I’m not advocating protecting IAG as is, just making sure that a business that was a highly profitable going concern before COVID emerges solvent enough to recover.

Are you another career non-productive civil servant like @History_Man? Because by **** the public sector needs a very deep prune.
No.
 
It would seem that HMG doesn't concur with you.

Is everyone, other than your magnificent self, so economically illiterate that they don't make the same conclusions about strategic business, tax income and soft power?

How any country manages without your brilliance is a mystery.
I said, perhaps foolishly, in another thread that it was rare to find Sapper officers who were complete chods. Perhaps I should make an exception in the case of Big Business Bob? That said, he is currently some of the best entertainment on Arrse, with his teary protestations that I am misrepresenting him.
 
Two possible reasons for the Government refusing to bailout BA.

1. S&P have just downgraded BA to Junk status.

2. According to some hysterical people on this site, BA ( or anyone else ) wont be flying in or out of the UK after the 31st December anyway ;) ;)
 
Two possible reasons for the Government refusing to bailout BA.

1. S&P have just downgraded BA to Junk status.

2. According to some hysterical people on this site, BA ( or anyone else ) wont be flying in or out of the UK after the 31st December anyway ;) ;)
I bet that Willie Walsh and Alex Cruz regret siding so openly with the Remain campaign now...
 
I said, perhaps foolishly, in another thread that it was rare to find Sapper officers who were complete chods. Perhaps I should make an exception in the case of Big Business Bob? That said, he is currently some of the best entertainment on Arrse, with his teary protestations that I am misrepresenting him.
Big Licks Bob is a bellend of epic proportions.
 
Two possible reasons for the Government refusing to bailout BA.

1. S&P have just downgraded BA to Junk status.

2. According to some hysterical people on this site, BA ( or anyone else ) wont be flying in or out of the UK after the 31st December anyway ;) ;)
Fitch already had BA debt at BB+. It’s hardly surprising; they have a big order book for new aircraft at a time when has collapsed and isn’t expected to recover to 2019 levels until 2023. Fitch’s assessment was that BA has enough liquidity to fund itself through Q2 when they expect revenues to start to recover.

BTW IAG has already taken £300M from UK Government Coronavirus Corporate Finance
Facility. There is a school of thought out there that IAG are playing this strategically; they have enough cash to survive and are waiting for competitors to go under.

Interestingly, Virgin Atlantic could not access the CCFF because it doesn’t have bonds in circulation and therefore doesn’t have a credit rating.
 
An interesting letter allegedly from McCluskey to the BA Board is doing the rounds. Unite represent a lot of at risk employees in BA, mainly Cabin Crew.

I will try and confirm it‘s not a fake and post it.

Meanwhile I’m amazed that there isn’t more discussion on the future of Virgin which imho is far more at risk. The Branson Factor isn’t going to go away, no matter how ill informed it may be and I have it on impeccable authority that to some extent the Government and without question the Opposition are opposed to aid for that very reason. The Politics of Jealousy played out with livelihoods. Pitiful.

That same source has indicated that rail, cycling, buses, roads, maritime, aviation is the pecking order at DfT in terms of both interest and in finance and it isn’t a straight line either, more a very steep concave curve. This of course mirrors Treasury to whom the whole Government is beholden.

The U.K. aviation sector is now on the critical list and fatalities can be expected imminently.
 
Meanwhile I’m amazed that there isn’t more discussion on the future of Virgin which imho is far more at risk. The Branson Factor isn’t going to go away, no matter how ill informed it may be and I have it on impeccable authority that to some extent the Government and without question the Opposition are opposed to aid for that very reason. The Politics of Jealousy played out with livelihoods. Pitiful.
Might it be that Virgin Atlantic hasnt made a profit in the last 3 years or an overall profit in the last decade? Or should the government fall over itself to lend money to shit businesses?
 
Might it be that Virgin Atlantic hasnt made a profit in the last 3 years or an overall profit in the last decade? Or should the government fall over itself to lend money to shit businesses?
No but it might start creating a level playing field and look at keeping personalities out of it. Aviation upsets too many powerful lobbies that have agendas.

And I wasn’t suggesting Virgin should be a standalone case, I was talking about the industry generally. My reference to them was questioning why everyone is ignoring them and highlighting the fact that agenda politics and petty socialist posturing is a far from reasoned argument for not doing more.
 
No but it might start creating a level playing field and look at keeping personalities out of it. Aviation upsets too many powerful lobbies that have agendas.

And I wasn’t suggesting Virgin should be a standalone case, I was talking about the industry generally. My reference to them was questioning why everyone is ignoring them and highlighting the fact that agenda politics and petty socialist posturing is a far from reasoned argument for not doing more.
Why did you mention Virgin? As a business its shit, the taxpayer shouldnt go anywhere near it.

I dont understand why taxpayers money should be punted on other airlines that may not survive even with a loan.
 
Why did you mention Virgin? As a business its shit, the taxpayer shouldnt go anywhere near it.

I dont understand why taxpayers money should be punted on other airlines that may not survive even with a loan.
As per the original post, I’m just surprised that all the talk is about BA shedding jobs when the likelihood is that Virgin will be doing the same. I’d agree that Virgin was a shit business that traded on the brand and gimmicks, all shiny on the outside but held together with chewing gum and string behind. Heaven knows, I’ve had to use their “service” often enough and know enough people who work for them to see it. But as a future prospect I believe it has one, not least because of its tie up with Delta and gradual improvement against the backdrop of BA and American in a seemingly terminal downward trend? I suppose what it comes down to is OneWorld -v- Star Alliance with the latter currently in the ascendancy imho.

As for why the Government should assist, I’m more concerned that the Government is hiding behind Virgin’s past failings and the personalities associated with it to avoid aid to an entire industry which has been hit harder than most and much of which, following the demise of the lame ducks, is highly profitable and a significant contributor to the economy.

If you want my honest opinion, the Government is scarred by the banking bail out backlash and doesn’t want to be seen to support industries perceived to be the preserve of high earners and elites. How many jokes do you hear about pilot arrogance and ego, pickets in Porsches etc? They are far more interested in preserving rail jobs despite the fact that virtually all the financial benefits go overseas and most train drivers earn more than junior pilots. They also strike if someone farts out of tune and transport more people on a daily basis which is great right up until you want to fly somewhere and the competition to the shite that BA has to offer Long Haul, or Ryanair and EasyJet Shorthaul has evaporated leaving you with more shite for even more money.

I‘m no business guru and certainly no supporter of propping up lame ducks but I’ve enough insight in this sector to see the pitfalls of allowing political posturing and narrow but trendy agendas to cloud sensible moves to protect a generally profitable industry that many won’t miss until it’s gone. Then they’ll wonder wtf happened.
 

Bob65

Old-Salt
The Politics of Jealousy played out with livelihoods
There was a time not that long ago when Branson was widely admired. It was him that threw that away. The UK is nothing but a cash cow to him now, and people have woken up to that fact and said "no more".
 
There was a time not that long ago when Branson was widely admired. It was him that threw that away. The UK is nothing but a cash cow to him now, and people have woken up to that fact and said "no more".
I've said it before, but his close association with both Blair and Remain will have done him no favours whatsoever with the current government.
 

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